hello [sorry for my english I'm french]
that's strange, I've submitted some months ago my improvements for MPT to the development team, but my patch (built with TortoiseSVN) was totally ignored, they continued to make new improvements without adding mines...
(http://xiwav.free.fr/img/ompt.png)
the modifications were: an 8-band graphic equaliser (instead of 6...) and some better icons (the appearence is quite important for all users, it's not very pleasant to work with a win3.1-like program....)
I don't know why they haven't added my changes, it was only about replacing/adding some lines in the source code.
If they don't make these changes, maybe I will continue to improve-it myself (but I'm not very very good at C++), and make a French version of this program
Our main developer who accepts/denies this, hasn't had the time to check every submission.
Relabs did made some changes but they haven't been added to the build of 0.48 either. Instead, a new brand was formed, so we could continue the development. At a later stage, these addons/fixes will be implemented in the .48 build and made into a new official version.
I like most of your icons, by the way.
by the way: I find the 17khz EQ setting a bit strange. i'd rather add a slider for the very low frequencies around 40-50hz.
nice icons.
Quote from: "phanoo"that's strange, I've submitted some months ago my improvements for MPT to the development team, but my patch (built with TortoiseSVN) was totally ignored, they continued to make new improvements without adding mines...
The patch was not totally ignored. I finally took a look at it few weeks ago but decided not merge it for the time being - sorry, I should have informed you about this. Also, please note that the developers may have their own features they wish to finish before starting to merge features implemented by others, or simply they wish to use their time for something else - the list of useful features to add is not a short one, so qualification is inevitable.
Quote from: "phanoo"the modifications were: an 8-band graphic equaliser (instead of 6...) and some better icons (the appearence is quite important for all users, it's not very pleasant to work with a win3.1-like program....)
While you did mention intention of improving icons, I didn't see any icon patches in the patch(EQ_VcProj.patch) received through modplug developers mailing list.
Quote from: "phanoo"it was only about replacing/adding some lines in the source code.
...and hours/days/weeks of exploring the code and making sure that the changes work as expected.
Quote from: "LPChip"Our main developer who accepts/denies this, hasn't had the time to check every submission.
Is our main developer active?
Quote from: "LPChip"Relabs did made some changes but they haven't been added to the build of 0.48 either. Instead, a new brand was formed, so we could continue the development. At a later stage, these addons/fixes will be implemented in the .48 build and made into a new official version.
No new branch has been formed, there just hasn't been release in sourceforge after .48 due to various reasons.
If it's Rewbs we're talking about, last time I heard from him he claimed to have forgotten how to use MPT... I guess that makes you "our main developer"...
I suggest every interested developer to start their own branch, and then everyone can adapt the changes of others as you please. Perhaps an open policy of one programmer one branch will make it easier for new people interested in the project to get started without feeling like they have to have the approval of people already involved in the project. After all, isn't that what defines a true open source project?
I was indeed talking about Rewbs. Sad to hear if he indeed won't do programming anymore.
Well indeed, I didn't thought about this, but no activities here by Rewbs for quite some time..
Pretty icons indeed, but this is somewhat spoiled by the imo a bit down-putting remark about the program being win3.11.
Which just isn't correct.
This can be considered as an estethical thing improving survey, no functions are changed or enhanced.
Then two more bands in the EQ.
Ok, every improvement is fine. But it is not something that I was desperately waiting for.
So I can imagine that the developers had other priorities.
And I agree with Jojo about the slider for low frequencies.
Of course every interested developer can start their own branch without approval from somewhere, it's open source indeed.
What can lead to the free choice of the user which construction to use.
But at least regarding this forum, it's another story. Without having some consensus which version is the basic, or the latest one,
it easily can become a mess regarding for example bugreports and requests.
I understand ; but when I make changes, I always verify that my features works... I worked on my musics with my modified version about 2 months, and there is no bugs.
Maybe I forgotten to talk to the developers that I test everything... (maybe they can't have 'trust in someone they don't know', but now they saw a screenshot...)
for the EQ, the problem was that the old EQ can only go up to 10 Khz. I added a high freq slider (11.5 to 19 Khz) and a low frequency (35 Hz to 85)
You make a big flaw in your judgement.
You can test something as much as you want, but if you also made the changes, there can always be parts that you didn't considered. Testing by other people will only proof that it was build correctly. On top of that, every developer should test their modifications before giving it out to the public.
maybe.
but for these modifications I'm sure there is no mistake in my code, because it's only very very basic modifications (copy the EQ's sliders code to add 2 bands, modify a small piece of code to add the support of 24-bit icons).
but of course I understand that the developers have to verify before adding anything
sorry if sometimes I don't express myself correctly (politeness) I'm not very 'strong' in english :lol:
I think no French version exists, so I will make a French version of OMPT.
I don't know if there is a way to have a separated language file... that would be a cool feature
I've seen rewbs some weeks ago lurking around in the forum here, so he's probably not totally forgotten about us :lol:
In addition, I may happily claim now that I'm probably going to join the mpt dev team! :)
Congratumalations, Jojo!
Thats great Jojo :)
Quote from: "phanoo"but for these modifications I'm sure there is no mistake in my code, because it's only very very basic modifications (copy the EQ's sliders code to add 2 bands...
What comes to the EQ part, to me it seems there are rather many problems for a "very very basic" modifications(e.g. old ini setting interpretation and various other potential problems caused by changing the eq band number). And regarding the icon part, where the related patch is available?
Quote from: "Jojo"In addition, I may happily claim now that I'm probably going to join the mpt dev team! :)
:)
I'm sure you're presence in the team will be an enrichment, Jojo !
Quote from: "phanoo"I understand that the developers have to verify before adding anything
This has more to do with the decision which version should be published. Not with the previous process.
Of course, as
LPChip stated, every developer should test their modifications.
But a dev always should be aware of the fact, that tests 'in the lab' don't cover everything possible.
So only beta-testing in practice, in all kinds of different conditions, by volunteers, could prove somewhere "there is no mistake in my code".
This is one of the beautiful aspects of open source.
While the evolution still needs some organised form, probably with some hierarchy in a way. To be effective.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"But a dev always should be aware of the fact, that tests 'in the lab' don't cover everything possible.
Indeed, the tests 'in the lab', if done at all, are has been very primitive and certainly could, and probably should, be improved. And while talking about the development of OMPT, all the feature it should have and how industry standard program it should be, it's good to keep in my the fact there's no full time professional developers or even well organised team developing the program, and it shows.
I know how you feel about being ignored, phanoo. No one seemed interested when i offered new sleek designs for the interface, but the devs may have their own priorities, so i just kept my specs to myself. NOT being a programmer, i've learned that devs go on their own schedule at their own interest. And even a sleek new interface can present a lot of programming nightmares.
Plus keep in mind, not all of us have the latest OS. I'm using MPT under Windows 98 emulation from my Mac. With every new version i fear i'll get left behind, and be stuck in the "last version for 98" dead-end lane. So even if you've tested it with your setup it may not work for some of us dinosaurs. And so far i get the impression that our noble devs or at least LPChip doesn't want anyone to get left behind...i hope :cry:
Quote from: "Harbinger"I know how you feel about being ignored, phanoo. No one seemed interested when i offered new sleek designs for the interface, but the devs may have their own priorities, so i just kept my specs to myself.
I'm quite sure keeping the specs to yourself didn't help your cause.
Honestly, How much I want to support everything, I'm not a dev either. I just run the community, and that gives me rights to say something, but the devs are the ones that determines what gets in and what not.
Quote from: "älskling"
I'm quite sure keeping the specs to yourself didn't help your cause.
Yeah thanks mr sarcastic. Except i didn't have a "cause." If the devs wanted ideas they would have spoken up. If you're not a dev, i didn't want to get anybody's hopes up, and i didn't want dead-end conversation.
My comment was designed to make our friend not feel so "rejected" about his good ideas. Yours on the other hand were completely unnecessary, alskling. Let's be gentlemen here, please... ::)
And sorry LP. I thought you had major input :wink: ....
Quote from: "Harbinger"Yours on the other hand were completely unnecessary, alskling. Let's be gentlemen here, please... ::)
I agree, let's be gentlemen and not sulky drama queens. ;)
I think everyone is in favor of me letting that kind of childish comment be the last word.... ::)
Hmm. I want to add a childish question mark here.
If the fear for the "last version for 98" dead-end lane exists, why on earth can it be a priority to improve a sleek design for the GUI ?
Back to the issue.
On almost each forum regarding software there is a category like 'feature requests'.
I've seen often that posters interpret this option to make a 'request' as a 'demand' to do something.
Especially newcomers of course because they don't know the structure of the development yet.
In reality, one dev, or a team, has to decide to release a new beta-version, otherwise it gets a mess.
Lots of requests are coming in, the dev has to check them, make a to-do list, and make priority choices.
In this perspective, I think on the TC forum the situation is more according to reality.
There's no forum for 'requests' only for 'suggestions'.
Doesn't remove the fact that an ignored suggestion can be disappointing too.
Perhaps, you were not ignored, but the developer(s) may have not seen much praticality in the implementations. As I believe was stated earlier, perhaps the development team just has not reached yours yet.
My 2 cents. A redesign with a nice looking GUI would be very nice. I don't see why one would think otherwise.
Quote from: "maleek"My 2 cents. A redesign with a nice looking GUI would be very nice. I don't see why one would think otherwise.
I don't think anyone thinks otherwise (at least not anyone who thought about it seriously). I think (from previous discussions) that developers have put priority to removing bugs and adding features than improving the ergonomics. One reason for this has been the intention (at least that's how I perceived things) of previous developers to rewrite the software to lessen dependencies on MFC and a new file format, and the redesign could be done at the same time. There has also been some concerns voiced that a custom GUI needs to work with screen readers for those with impaired eye-sight.
In the end tho, everyone thinks it would be nice buy no one is prepared to make the effort.
My speculations may be wrong tho, so anyone feel free to correct me.
Of course a fancy GUI would be nice, I've nothing against that, as long as the navigation stays clear.
But älskling points to an important factor : the accessability for the visually impaired.
älskling and Sam Zen:
Valid points. I have the utmost respect for the focus of the people who take their time to add to the OMPT-project, and what they focus on.
I code a bit myself and I do believe that most developers prefer to work on other things than replacing icons and simmilar tasks. I personally like the minimalistic look of modplug like it is and I would rather get more features implemented before doing anything about the icons ;)
The point here is that even if icons and other "minor" stuff is submitted there might be more important things to do first. Considering the feature requests here on the forum there are tons of things that seem more important than "polishing" the GUI.
A reason for the equalizer to not be implemented might be that the new equalizer (if not adjusted flat) does not reproduce the old sound from the previous equalizer 100% the same. If you however had a option of selecting equalizer(s) it might be more interesting IMHO.
Anyway this was just my view on things. Keep hope alive guys ;)
yes, i'm agree with you, MANY improvements are more useful that modifying the GUI. but when someone not in the development team do the work, it's not really hard for them to include it to the build !
they have just to replace the old icon file with mines, and replace a few lines of codes (to allow MPT to use more than 16-colour icons) :wink:
I'd really love to see the new icons in MPT. phanoo, can you upload that resource file somewhere?
Quote from: "Jojo"I'd really love to see the new icons in MPT. phanoo, can you upload that resource file somewhere?
Take a look at the "devBranch_1_17_03"-branch in SVN; the icons have been committed there.
thanks, i'll have a look. btw, can you add me to the developers list at sf.net? my username is saga-games.