Hi everybody.
While surfing through the net I recently landed on ctgmusic.com, took a deeper look on this site and listened to some songs (I heard about this site before, but it didn't interest me very much). Suddenly I found one of my songs in the "new-songs-list".
After that I found out that all of my songs are released there (http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=16928), including my comments that were simply copied and pasted from s3m.com (http://www.s3m.com/dma/displayuser.php?user_id=1317).
The curious thing is that I never registered myself on ctgmusic, so I'm definitely not a member!
Somebody has obviously registered there by using my nickname and released my songs without even asking me.
Maybe I'm a bit thin-skinned but I have to say that I'm very angry about that and I really hope that nobody in this forum is responsible for that!
Greetings
-TheEagle
I'm a user there too, but other than that, I do not administrate or run ctgmusic in any way.
So I think its safe to say that nobody on this forum is responsible for putting your songs on there. I don't think any of the staffmembers are registered members here either.
Well, you're at least not alone here, 8 Bit Collective has gotten infamous for an user who was impersonating at least two trackers on 8BC. But that's not CTG (which I'm also on). You should report that to the CTG administrators.
By the way: CTG does not host songs. I would relax and see it as an advertisment. Nobody uploaded your songs there, they just put links there. But yeah, they impersonated you, and that's the bad thing.
Quote from: "Jojo"Nobody uploaded your songs there, they just put links there.
Yes, I know....
Quote from: "Jojo"But yeah, they impersonated you, and that's the bad thing.
That's the point! :x
what I'd suggest to do is ask CTG admins to turn that account over to you :-)
they can certainly put in your email into that account and reset the password.
usurp the usurper :evil:
also,
while we are on the subject of CTG - I notice from my stats that every post I make there ends up in several MP3 aggregation sites w/o my permission etc.
its not a bad thing if you want the exposure - and the lesson to be learned is to make sensible ID3 tags I guess.
It only happened when I joined CTG in august - and other SoOn members who have posted there have been picked up as well (I can see their stats as well of course.)
Since these sites are chock full of advertisement - they are essentially making money from your content and bandwidth.
When I search for LPChip, I also see lots of mp3 sites hosting my music. Funny enough, I can see by the numbers that are hosted where they come from. Surprisingly enough, not even from CTGMusic. I see sites that get the songs from last.fm and youtube, or perhaps a bot is harvesting the mp3's, because other than youtube and modplug, these mp3's aren't linked. (I don't have that many on last.fm)
Not the case for me. Since Sam has gone no one listens to me on modplug. Apparently not even the bots! :-)
Sam has gone?
Good that I switched to (properly tagged, even with artist picture) OGG Vorbis then! :D
Sam has gone? You mean "gone" gone or "gone" gone?
to TheEagle: catch the bastard, matey.
Well, he's still here at least, he has answered a PM a few hours ago. :P
I don't know any more about Sam than anyone else.
Jojo, how is a proper ogg tag going to help with mp3 aggrigator sites? :evil:
Quote from: "g"Sam has gone
My jaw dropped and nearly pushed the teacup off the table.
Quote from: "clones"No one listens to me on modplug. Apparently not even the bots!
I guess it's because a majority of your tracks are improvisations. Some people (like me) have a prejudice about that. :D You gotta make tarnce to please everyone LOL :lol:
As for me I am very picky these times. Can't even listen to what I have at home, takes a week to digest an album.
Quote from: "uncloned"Since Sam has gone no one listens to me on modplug. Apparently not even the bots! :-)
This is not true. I
always listen to your releases but I'm a bit lazy about writing.. :D
And I'm definitely not a bot...:wink:
Quote from: "psishock"Sam has gone? You mean "gone" gone or "gone" gone?
What? :shock:
Quote from: "jojo"Well, he's still here at least, he has answered a PM a few hours ago.
Good to hear....
Quote from: "psishock"catch the bastard, matey.
I will, buddy. And I already have a prime suspect....
Just checked for my nickname at that godawful site... what a relief.
BTW I've noticed that my lousy opuses are being downloaded too often. I guess bots are overactive or I'm being paranoid. Googled for Nahkranoth just for lulz and found some links to disappeared russian mp3 sites.
Is it a conspiracy of some sort? I should get myself some anti-alien crowbars equipped with night vision or some garlic or silver bullets or that stuff Sam smokes on a daily basis :D
Quote from: "uncloned"Jojo, how is a proper ogg tag going to help with mp3 aggrigator sites? :evil:
As the name says, I think they only harvest mp3 files, and maybe wma. The popular file formats, you know. And even if they just steal my oggs, there's still evidence that they're coming from me (if they don't remove all the vorbis tags, that is).
No one has taken my nick, but guess I'm not popular as you guys.
Regard the listening, I try to listen to all trance/house/electronic songs here. But should be better to comment them.
Quote from: "Rakib"No one has taken my nick
Mine either, except from some game-addicted mofo that register at all the gaming forums he know of. But that's another story and I know I was first to claim! :lol:
Well, I think neither the nickname itself (type "TheEagle" into google an you'll get 38 million results) nor "mp3 harvesting" is the problem here. In in this "special case" somebody copied the complete songs-list and the comments from my "artist-page" on s3m.com (signature) and pasted them on ctgmusic.
That's curious!
Quote from: "TheEagle"In in this "special case" somebody copied the complete songs-list and the comments from my "artist-page" on s3m.com (signature) and pasted them on ctgmusic.
That's curious!
If it's not the bot then why the heck someone will impersonate you is beyond me. That's really weird. Maybe you're being promoted by Higher Powers? :lol:
Quote from: "ctgmusic"born 01st January 1930
Man you're old!
Quote from: "uncloned"Since Sam has gone no one listens to me on modplug
mostly because lack of time uncloned. Barely can even read even new posts, but i'll try to catch up sometime.
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"Maybe you're being promoted by Higher Powers? :lol:
*LOL* You know the movie "Blues Brothers"?
"We are musicians. We are on the road in the name of the Lord..." 8)
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"
Quote from: "ctgmusic"born 01st January 1930
Man you're old!
Well, sometimes I really feel that old... :wink:
Quote from: "TheEagle"You know the movie "Blues Brothers"?
"We are musicians. We are on the road in the name of the Lord..." 8)
I know the title itself, but not the movie, at least can't remember it. I used to watch 3 movies a day, and that was too much. I can barely remember what was going on in at least 1/10 of those.
QuoteWell, sometimes I really feel that old... :wink:
That'shhh the shhpirit, shhhon! I think I know what you mean :lol:
Quote from: "psishock"Quote from: "uncloned"Since Sam has gone no one listens to me on modplug
mostly because lack of time uncloned. Barely can even read even new posts, but i'll try to catch up sometime.
I didn't mean to sound ... negative - the fact is though listens for pretty much everybody's releases have lessened of late. Sam is usually the only one who slogs through it all. And it seems the pace of releases has slowed also. Maybe someone like Jojo will display some statistics that will contradict me - it's just my subjective observation.
I was once again traveling today and posting from a black berry can lead to incomplete thoughts.
I would like to say one thing about these aggregation sites.
Back in the late 90's through 2004 I had several websites with varying degrees of statistics.
Aggregators started out being a web page that linked to your site started by some intrepid soul Sometimes they asked, most didn't. I personally was really ok with it.
By about 1998 or 2000-ish I started to notice that most of my traffic was direct links. I didn't like that because that meant people were sucking down my music and not connecting to me. (despite the MP3 tag). My site itself got little traffic but at times I had 50 or 60 downloads per hour for a day or two with new releases. (I think that is because MP3's were hard to come by still - not that I was so great). The stats that I had - raw access logs - it all looked like a myriad of IPs so I didn't figure out where this traffic was from.
The direct downloads "cut me out of the loop" - no one read my lyrics or production notes - or the story behind the song, etc. etc. So... I felt "disembodied". I've had some time to think about this - and excepting usenet I didn't post music to the internet between 2004-ish to March 2008 at traxinspace when I finally accepted the beta invitation.
I'm going to tie in Louigi's philosophy that after the act of creation the creator no longer "owns" the creation but the creation has its own "life" sort of to speak. There is some sense to this when it comes to these guys making a buck by selling ads around our music. At this point I think its great and wish them luck. Unfortunately for me I have fun with my tags so... I attribute music to my ferrets and other such silliness and forget to put my web site in it or such so no one can find me. Then on the other had I sometimes think having essentially no attribution could make it better to receive - like that midi performance of "Reflections on the Water" by Debussy I posted. I have no idea who did it - but I've very grateful someone did. I chalk it up to someone adding something positive in this world that is too often focused on greed.
I don't know how much of this is new to anyone - but you think a lot when you are stuck in a car for 6 hours
:D
And Psishock and everyone else - if you want to listen or not that's up to you. What I've noticed is that when I release a composition on multiple sites generally it is only popular at one of the handful I post to. It is still surprising to me and I've yet to figure out what I'm doing that appeals so I can't predict even after years of statistics. Things that I've done I've liked a lot is usually the kiss of death for the listener.
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"
Quote from: "clones"No one listens to me on modplug. Apparently not even the bots!
I guess it's because a majority of your tracks are improvisations. Some people (like me) have a prejudice about that. :D You gotta make tarnce to please everyone LOL :lol:
As for me I am very picky these times. Can't even listen to what I have at home, takes a week to digest an album.
You are certainly free to listen or not of course - but you raise an interesting point....
What is your prejudice? I don't think improvised music is any less valid than not. Some of my best work is improvised and some of my worst is scored.
And think of classical Eastern Indian music - the entire tradition is built around improvisation - and during the Baroque period in Europe all performers were expected to improvise - so much so the written music score was not complete. And lets not forget Jazz and Blues is also built around improvisation.
And some of the best guitar solos by the best players, especially on live albums, are improvised.
If you don't like my music - well... nothing to be done for that and I'm totally cool with that. I'm not going out of my way to listen to Disco, House or Dance believe me!! :twisted:
At least don't listen to rumours, guys !
I'm gone.. into my 66th year today, on a daily basis. :)
Hm, this thread is a bit chaotic, with some semi hijack elements, but never mind.
0. I understand Eagle's anger. But sh^t happens.
One must be aware of the fact that almost anything published on the Inet can be copied / multiplied.
Whether it's a nice thing to do or not. I stopped being angry about it, but it irritates me too.
According to the Netiquette, a deeplink is not done. as Clones stated, because it is just a download,
not a visitor. If, like in this case, people copy other related stuff as well, .. awful.
1. This MP3 harvesting.
Some years ago I discovered, that the part on my server with all the albumtracks was completely downloaded.
I found in my stats, that it was a provider in Hungary. Visiting there, I saw a complete mirror of the DL-pages.
I was pissed off too then. So far, my tracks were MP3 format, and I heard about 'slurper-bots'.
This was the main reason, as Jojo, to re-convert all my files to the OGG format, to avoid those bots.
Since then, I've never found another attempt in my stats.
And, as said here, filling in the ID3 tags should be done.
The embedded coverart is a nice suggestion by Jojo.
2. Abuse
I agree about the notion, that, as soon as a piece of art is made and published, it's on its own in the world.
A unity, free from its Author.
But this could be seen as a child.
So you want it to grow up in a good, trustfull environment, not to be exploited, or covered with ad stickers.
Or claimed by some loser, who is not the father.
3. Silent listening
Don't worry Clones, I checked all the tracks. But sometimes I just keep my big mouth shut.
Plus the fact, that playing a composition by some Debussy or such, is a performance, not a work.
And I'm not into western classical music whatsoever, so I don't know.
What should I say ? 'Well played' ?
4. Improvisations
People with a classical knowledge about music, or classical musicians, can't handle improvisation.
They think, if you improvise, you just do whatever you like. This is not true.
Improvisation is just another art form than composing.
With its own rules and also happening within a framework.
Even within free jazz there were some themes and agreements between the musicians about their roles and the time.
Many of my compositions started from scratch, without any pre-plan, just a few samples was enough to inspire something.
So this could be called "improvised composing".
On the other hand, sometimes recording an improvisation is not that interesting for an audience.
First, because it's just a registration of what's happening during a time.
So often the piece is too long in the first place. A shorter version could have had the same essence.
Listening to long improvisations of good musicians can be exciting if you are in a nightclub or hall,
but listening at home to the same could be quite boring.
Checked : my nickname wasn't found at ctgmusic.com
About harvesting - since I'm using a flash player for my (older) albums I imagine this prevents easy duplication - that may be a preferable way than to direct link from a page.
But then again if you put a direct link onto a site like CTG or here you lose control.
an aside - improvisation is a lost art for the classical musician - composers wanted control after the Baroque - then composers like Cage threw dice - strange world indeed.
Mmm... Well, someone carefully released your music on another site, kept all the titles and your authorship intact, posted even the comments and went through all the trouble of putting links to your music. It's not so bad, is it.
Still it is interesting. Perhaps someone on CTG who wanted to increase the activity of the dead site.
Anyway, Eagle, do not be angry about it. A good solution would be to ask CTG administration (if any still exists) to give you the account. Another good solution would be to not care, really.
Quote from: "uncloned"What is your prejudice? I don't think improvised music is any less valid than not. Some of my best work is improvised and some of my worst is scored.
If I can't predict what will happen throughout the whole song it kinda confuses me. What I like in baroque is that predictable/unpredictable parts are interchanging.
Hmm, instantly thought of Enigma and harpsichord sonata6m1. Those are awesome examples of scored works of yours.
Quote from: "uncloned"And some of the best guitar solos by the best players, especially on live albums, are improvised.
I agree, but often they are forgetting themselves and begin to overimprovise :D That's what I don't like, too technical but too random and close to noodling.
Quote from: "uncloned"If you don't like my music...
I didn't say that :oops: I can't like ALL the tracks, for sure, but there are some, you know :D
Quote from: "uncloned"I'm not going out of my way to listen to Disco, House or Dance believe me!! :twisted:
And that's what I totally respect! +1 :D
By the way, I also listen to Clones music when I have the time, but it is very rare that I have time to write about the music I have heard. Nahkranoth is right: if you really want to be listen by many people, you'd better make trance or disco. But I think that most of us are not here to be popular, but for doing what we want.
To Sam: first, happy birthday; good to see that you are NOT gone. Second, classical musicians DO improvise. In fact, usually the cadenzas were always improvised, and in the old times, the partitures left aside a lot of details, because they were left to the taste of the player, who many times improvised a lot; only in recent times has become usual to try to write quite precisely what the author wants. I have read that in the concerts given by Beethoven, the main dish were not his symphonias, but the improvisation at the piano he played at the end.
LOL I found my photo on one crappy aggregator site along with videos of some gameplay. No music, if you ask me, just videos that have nothing to do with me. And for some reason I have 4,5 stars out of 5. I'm fucking famous! :lol: I send rays of hurricane diarrhoea to those responsible for this shit.
Quote from: "Louigi Verona"Anyway, Eagle, do not be angry about it.
As he already said, it's not (only) about someone putting up his music somewhere, but more because he's impersonating TheEagle. That's the huge problem, someone is basically claiming that he
is TheEagle, which is not true. I don't mind my music being spread (in fact, I would to see my music more places that just those where I post it) and that's also one of the reason why I go with a CC-BY-NC-SA license.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"I'm gone.. into my 66th year today, on a daily basis. :)
Happy birthday, sam. :)
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
....but sh^t happens.
As always, you are right: :wink:
Quote
Religious Views of Life. (unknown author)
Confucianism:
sh^t forms the dark side of the universe
Taoism:
sh^t will disappear by keeping quiet.
Hinduism:
sh^t is the bill of your former lives.
Buddhism:
Annihilate sh^t by meditation!
Zen:
What is the sound of sh^t happening?
Judaism:
Why does sh^t always happen to us?
Orthodox:
Sing a hymn and sh^t will not touch your soul!
Catholicism:
If sh^t happens, you deserve it.
Islam:
If sh^t happens, it is the will of Allah.
Lutherans:
Produce sh^t bravely but believe in justification!
Reformed:
sh^t challenges you for fighting through.
Baptist:
To keep sh^t from happening, send money now.
Atheist:
I don't believe this sh^t.
Agnosticism:
What is this sh^t?
Esoteric:
sh^t happens by working over earth rays.
Oh, yes, happy birthday, S_Z!
2TheEagle: sh^t happens, but I don't give a sh^t :D
yes - Happy birthday Sam!
Indeed, happy birthday. :)
Happy Hawkday X)
Hey Sam, happy b-day! We hafta do a big ompt party when you reach 100. Hurry up will ya? :D
We can also celebrate a party when you turn 50, we don't have to wait as long in that case. :P Actually, you would only have to wait a couple of months until I hit the 20 years barrier, so we can celebrate then. :P Maybe at Breakpoint 2010? :D :D :D
Well, at least they didn't post your songs under someone else's name. Impersonating you was bad. Also, I don't think you were born in 1930 :D
Btw, this happened to me too.
Someone posted my song for a competition at scene.org and spelled my name as Lp Chip. Yuk...
Hmm. Just one day after I released my latest song here (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3466.0) and on s3m.com, this person copied and pasted it on ctg....
I feel observed! :shock:
And you didn't write the CTG staff yet? :P
Quote from: "Jojo"And you didn't write the CTG staff yet? :P
I did. Waiting for a reply.....
I forgot about this problem when I wrote your review at CTG!!
I'm sorry - I thought it was YOU!
Well, it is him, in a sense... :)
Quote from: "Jojo"Well, it is him, in a sense... :)
Nope! It's somebody who pretends he/she is me.
i said "in a sense", because clonses was commenting on your music...
I just received this PM on CTG
"
Thank you for that kind review! You are the first reviewer of my songs and I thank you very much. :martini:"
umm is it you Mr Eagle or your googleganger?
Nope! It's not me.(http://download.modplug.com/uploads/files/1254415053angry%20cussing.gif)
Are there any further informations in that PM?
Mr Uncloned, may I ask you for a favour? Could you send a PM to this guy on ctg with something like "I don't think that you are 'TheEagle'" and add a link to this topic? ( http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3452.0 )
I sent the following
Ummm I have a question...
Are you really TheEagle? Some people don't think that you are 'TheEagle'" - namely TheEagle himself....
http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3452.0
Look at this topic
[url counter="no" url=" http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3452.0"] http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3452.0[/url]
Can't wait for the next episode :D
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"Can't wait for the next episode :D
And here it comes:
I received the following mail just some minutes ago:
QuoteHello,
I read what you posted on lpchip forums about somebody posting your music on CTGMusic.com. I would like to make a confession. That person was me. I beg that you please forgive me. Back in November 2008 when I signed up, I didn't think that was a bad thing to do up to this day. I just want to say that I'm very sorry. I wish there was another way to apologize. I will give you the account informating incase you want it:
Username: *******
Password: *******
If you want me to close it, etc. please let me know. I feel very nervous and very ashamed of myself.
I hope that you forgive me and have no hard feelings. But I can also understand if you do. It was my mistake and I will try to do my best to fix it.
Thank you as much as possible
Rick *******
I have not decided yet, what to do next.
Mr Uncloned: Thank you very much for the PM you sent to that guy. It seems as if it had fulfilled its purpose.
No Problem Mr Eagle!
I would send it to the CTG admins so they can track his IP. Your artist name may not be the only one he decided to... "promote".
The only way to be sure is for the admins at CTG to run a search on his IP on their access logs. That he apologized is good - but certainly if he has other bad accounts he needs to be banned.
Also.... did you get this PM here? Then he has an account here as well.
I think its great to promote an artist you like - but one should ask about it first before opening up an account in their name....
Quote from: "uncloned"I would send it to the CTG admins so they can track his IP. Your artist name may not be the only one he decided to... "promote".
Well, it seems that the ctg-admins are not very active. For them there is obviously no need to answer the mail I sent them last weekend. So I won't sent them a mail again...
I decided to log in at ctg using the PW the guy wrote in the mail. I changed the PW and name after I deleted the songs. Finally I left a message that says 'This account is dead!' ( http://www.ctgmusic.com/artist.php?id=16928 )
Quote from: "uncloned"
Also.... did you get this PM here? Then he has an account here as well.
No. As I wrote above he sent it by e-mail....
I was like doooode, WTF???!!11 This is some weird shit, Mozart vs Salieri style :lol:
MrEagle, I hope while I'm writing this, Timbaland is not making some serious bling-bling using your tunes, fo' shizzle :lol:
I'm not sure why you removed all the music from the account, it would have been yet another good place to find your music... But that's up to you.
Well,
Yannick runs the server for CTG (madtracker) and I think if LPChip were to write him, as a fellow scene admin , you'd have your best chance of obtaining action then. It could be that the CTG guys can't do anything. I've seen posts that said they were helpless to make changes because of the lack of a coder. Same sort of thing exists at traxinspace where no one can do anything w/o mysterium who is busy with his private life and other projects that pay.
That is if MrEagle and LPChip wants to follow up.
MrEagle - do you have statistics on the site that hosts your songs? I don't know about your host - mine shows me every forum / site / IP that accesses my tunes. - At the very least the raw access logs should be available to you somehow and you'd be able to address the question Nahkranoth brings up.
To bring this whole thing to an end, I'd like to post here the next mail I received from 'that guy':
QuoteHello,
I thank you very much for deleting that account. I hope you excepted my apology. I give you my word that I will never do that again now that you corrected the errors of my ways. Thank you very much. I am still ashamed of myself.
Rick *****
Finally, 'the case is closed' so to speak...(http://download.modplug.com/uploads/files/1254416797smile.gif)
Quote from: "Unloned"MrEagle - do you have statistics on the site that hosts your songs? I don't know about your host - mine shows me every forum / site / IP that accesses my tunes. - At the very least the raw access logs should be available to you somehow and you'd be able to address the question Nahkranoth brings up.
As I wrote above. From my point of view there's no further investigation needed. I regard the matter as settled...
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"
MrEagle, I hope while I'm writing this, Timbaland is not making some serious bling-bling using your tunes, fo' shizzle
Umm. I'm very sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about... :oops:
Although the matter has been resolved, I want to point out that I will help in these cases where I can.
So it was Rick Astley who impersonated you?!?!?! :nuts: :lol: :lal:
QuoteUmm. I'm very sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about...
read on here... (http://modarchive.org/forums/index.php?topic=488.0)
Removed for security reasons
Ouch, that's pretty disturbing indeed. ::)
I can say g that I did not at all like this video playing and taking over my browser moving the window so often I couldn't close it.
it sucked totally.
I had to power down to get rid of it.
Quote from: "uncloned"... and taking over my browser moving the window so often I couldn't close it.
it sucked totally.
I had to power down to get rid of it.
Opera Browser FTW :D
As a mod, I beg you to remove that link.
+1
Firefox with Noscript ftw...
Pages like those should actually teach you something: That having Javascript and stuff like Flash or Java enabled all the time is a bad thing. Unless I explicitely allow a page to use JS or Flash (I got Java completely disabled, because only a minority of websites relies on Java, and those are not worth viewing), it won't execute JS code or run Flash applets. That way, I'm also pretty safe from drive-by downloads.
BTW: Rickrolling is an Art, and "g" succeeded very well in it. Take it easy, guys!
that argument sounds like
if I shoot a bullet at you and you are not wearing a flak jacket then it is obviously your fault for dying..... not the person who shot the bullet.
so no - it still sucks and I agree it should be removed. still.
If it's not for our heroes, clones and TheEagle (the real one), just imagine how many people at CTG could be rickrolled :!:
(http://s.lurkmore.ru/images/thumb/5/58/Rickroll.gif/100px-Rickroll.gif)
Quote from: "uncloned"if I shoot a bullet at you and you are not wearing a flak jacket then it is obviously your fault for dying..... not the person who shot the bullet.
Not wearing a flak jacket on a battle ground is a bad idea, though.
There
are many people on the internet who just want your money and use browser or plugin vulnerabilities to get your personal data and stuff. You cannot ignore that. This almost happened to me once, when a couple of demoscene sites were infected with that stupid malware shit from the Russian Business Network. Since that day, I never use a browser without NoScript.
Quote from: "uncloned"I can say g that I did not at all like this video playing and taking over my browser moving the window so often I couldn't close it.
it sucked totally.
I had to power down to get rid of it.
Sorry... It didn't do that in my browser. :oops:
EDIT: Like LPChip, I recommend using Opera. I really hope you didn't lose any work over it. I don't like shooting at people at all, regardless of the amount of kevlar they wear.
like Jojo states, disable java anyway.
Well, that site made use of JavaScript which has nothing in common with Java, apart from the first four letters. However, JavaScript is not actually needed on most websites, and it should be a rule that Javacript should only be used for enhancing the presentation of a website, and a website should never depend on JavaScript (though there are some expections, like video or audio platforms of course). However, since JavaScript can be used to delay-load malicious payload, it's much safer to use a whitelist for pages that are allowed to execute JavaScript.
Java, on the other hand, is completely unnecessary.
Jojo, as a professional webapp developer, I must say that I completely disagree with you. :) Mostly. I do, however, agree that Java and JavaScript have very little in common, apart from the fact that they're both curly-brace languages. And JavaScript is properly called ECMAScript, anyway. :P
<rant>
In my opinion, the notion that JavaScript is simply there to add 'sparkle' to a website is outmoded. Nowadays, JavaScript powers the web -- web systems like Scalix and Bespin, to take two completely different apps, rely fundamentally on JavaScript.
Now, whilst it *used* to be the case that JavaScript was a thoroughly underpowered language, it is now, perhaps, one of the most powerful languages in the world, largely because of its prevalence, functional programming roots, and prototypal inheritance system. I know that, as a C programmer, JavaScript appears messy and untidy, and that prototypal inheritance seems, well, counter-intuitive. But let me tell you, as a C, Java, Haskell, and now Javascript programmer -- there's a lot more to JS than meets the eye. Strap on a really good framework, like MooTools, and you can do just about anything you like, often in more elegant ways.
I agree that JavaScript can be used nastily -- so can plain vanilla HTML, if you know what you're doing. Heck, so can the .Net framework, or addons for Fx, IE, or Op, or even desktop widgets for your platform of choice. That's no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. To my mind, rather than blocking JavaScript, you're better off using a system like AdBlock, which can use a blacklist for sites like the one linked to (and unlinked) earlier. Best of all, the blacklist is contributed to by many people, not just you. It's generally pretty good, but if something does sneak through, you can just add it.
Basically, I guess that what I'm getting at is that dismissing JavaScript out of hand is not, perhaps, the best approach. :)
Oh, and sorry if I ruffled any feathers with this rant -- I certainly didn't mean to. :) Since I've been working as a full-time webapp developer, programming primarily in Java (server-side) and JavaScript (clientside), I've become a bit of Javascript fanboy -- I do believe that it's a widely under-appreciated and under-valued language.
If you really want to appreciate Java, I think that you have to come at it separately from C -- looking at it from a functional perspective (ie the lambda calculus -- awesome stuff) -- is, in my opinion, a better approach.
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Clones: If you're in Windows, pressing [Ctrl]+[Shift]+[Esc] will bring up the task manager, allowing you to close any windows doing annoying things. Simpler, and less problematic, than turning off your machine.
It doesn't matter if JavaScript is / was an underpowered language, untererstimated or whatever - It's just plain annoying in most cases. While it may enhance the user's experience of a website (i.e. by using ajax, or to control a video player or whatever), "static" websites (i.e those without multimedia like videos or audio) should simply not rely on JavaScript, since there's no good reason to do that. Most things that JavaScript is actually used for can nowadays be done by using CSS.