(http://clones.soonlabel.com/tis/neda.jpg)
here is the video with the music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvt3GoaG3zs&feature=channel_page
Just the music
http://clones.soonlabel.com/mp3/iran-neda-iran.mp3
Year: 2009
Album:
Singles
Artist's description:
Augmented percussion ensemble - piano, harp, marimba + orchestral percussion
Contributors:
Ice9 composition
clones ensemble arrangement, samples.
The music just adds to the tragedy, to be honest. Does not come up with an inner solution, you know. Dunno if it was the intention.
Listened to the MP3 first, then watched the video later. I immediately wondered at what level these sounds were combined by the composer (creating the details vs. mixing and matching bigger pieces)? Quite impressive. I reacted on the static condition occasionally, but it somehow didn't tire me. This became even less of an issue while watching the video, as other aspects caught the attention. An intriguing 10 minutes, nice correspondence between the audible and the visual. However, while I liked the general depiction, there were a few instances of use of devices and focus which initially appeared exaggerated, but I might have approached it too narrowly (too conscious about the track title). The work made me wonder about a few things, and I might watch it over again soon to see if I overlooked anything.
Very good work. Bit too long, but anyway, Neda is beautiful, and I strongly support this attention.
A critic about the clip : the pictures of an atomic blast are way too obvious.
And not relevant here : this is not about foreign policy or threats to the outside,
it's about the internal struggle of people for their freedom.
Sam, this is what I had in mind while authoring the video.
The oppression of the Iranian people IS about acquiring the bomb.
On a video I saw an interview of a young Iranian who stated how he did not want to die in an atomic war with the United States. That gave me some insight.
Perhaps atomic war with the US in reality this is unlikely - but it symbolizes I think the will of the Ayatollah (which their president acts out) verses the will of the people. The ruling class is determined to acquire the military strength to dictate to Israel and I think the people really don't care about Israel, they want jobs and modern things - what they see as normal aspects of life.
I think like most people the Iranians just want to live their life in peace - like the Americans and Russians in the cold war. The people really didn't hate each other despite the propaganda - but the leaders were playing a game with all of our lives.
This is not to say there is not some truth to the grievances of the Palestinians - or the paranoia of the Israelis - even here in this case - I think most people just want to live in peace and not be pawns of their respective leaders.
Quote from: "Louigi Verona"The music just adds to the tragedy, to be honest. Does not come up with an inner solution, you know. Dunno if it was the intention.
Hi LV, thanks so much for the listen.
I'm not sure what the solution is... except I know it shouldn't involve bloodshed. The audio ends with Neda's father screaming as she passes. So yes, it is a spotlight on a needless tragedy.
Quote from: "apple-joe"Listened to the MP3 first, then watched the video later. I immediately wondered at what level these sounds were combined by the composer (creating the details vs. mixing and matching bigger pieces)? Quite impressive. I reacted on the static condition occasionally, but it somehow didn't tire me. This became even less of an issue while watching the video, as other aspects caught the attention. An intriguing 10 minutes, nice correspondence between the audible and the visual. However, while I liked the general depiction, there were a few instances of use of devices and focus which initially appeared exaggerated, but I might have approached it too narrowly (too conscious about the track title). The work made me wonder about a few things, and I might watch it over again soon to see if I overlooked anything.
Hi apple-joe I would be glad to try answer any technical questions. As a start the original mid track Bill (ice9) gave me was 20 or 30 minutes long. I cut it down because youtube has a 10 minute length limit. The music was done before the other audio was added. The audio was ripped from videos sent from Iran - I tried to limit as much as possible to home made videos which should not have a copyright aspect. Of course Obama is a freebie.
Putting together 10 minutes of video, which was a musical necessity, was quite challenging. You probably noticed that some of the footage was a repeat with the ominous red added.
Thanks for the answers, uncloned.
When I wrote about focus and the use of devices, I thought - among other things - about what SamZen pointed out. Regarding this particular aspect, maybe the impression would be better if the message were communicated in a slightly less explicit manner. As the scope broadens, the exclusion of pertinent external factors causes an unfortunate excess for what concerns the portraying. To me, several sentiments conveyed had the effect of disturbing, rather than emphazising, what I interpret to be the main story. Now, whether this is desirable or not is dependent on the extent to which there is an intended main focus on Neda.
many other approaches were possible - even desirable.
However consider:
My goals were:
1. to use as little of copyrighted sources as possible
2. get this entire piece done in less than 24hr to preserve its relevance to current events
3. the music was not retrospective or implicit - the music is tense and explicit
So - for these reasons compromises were made from what may be an ideal perfection. To be honest all of my work is compromised. I am not a composer who twiddles with dials for 6 months looking for "just right" - I have too many ideas to get out. (click on my user name and look at my list of posts...) No offense intended for those who do twiddle - its just one aspect that makes me .... me.
Quote from: "Louigi Verona"The music just adds to the tragedy, to be honest. Does not come up with an inner solution, you know. Dunno if it was the intention.
that was the intention of the music you know glad I could convey that idea It is difficult at times to think thru solutionless tragedies but for me since I sort of shelter my self from the media I did not know of this tragedy till I saw what Chris had done in the video work..
Quote from: "uncloned"Quote from: "apple-joe"Listened to the MP3 first, then watched the video later. I immediately wondered at what level these sounds were combined by the composer (creating the details vs. mixing and matching bigger pieces)? Quite impressive. I reacted on the static condition occasionally, but it somehow didn't tire me. This became even less of an issue while watching the video, as other aspects caught the attention. An intriguing 10 minutes, nice correspondence between the audible and the visual. However, while I liked the general depiction, there were a few instances of use of devices and focus which initially appeared exaggerated, but I might have approached it too narrowly (too conscious about the track title). The work made me wonder about a few things, and I might watch it over again soon to see if I overlooked anything.
Hi apple-joe I would be glad to try answer any technical questions. As a start the original mid track Bill (ice9) gave me was 20 or 30 minutes long. I cut it down because youtube has a 10 minute length limit. The music was done before the other audio was added. The audio was ripped from videos sent from Iran - I tried to limit as much as possible to home made videos which should not have a copyright aspect. Of course Obama is a freebie.
Putting together 10 minutes of video, which was a musical necessity, was quite challenging. You probably noticed that some of the footage was a repeat with the ominous red added.
It is neat how the static condition was created but that would be a lecture in random vs non-random qualities and elements of sound and midi.
Quote from: "Ice9"
It is neat how the static condition was created but that would be a lecture in random vs non-random qualities and elements of sound and midi.
That sounds like a great discussion!
What are your thoughts?
Quote from: "Ice9"Quote from: "Louigi Verona"The music just adds to the tragedy, to be honest. Does not come up with an inner solution, you know. Dunno if it was the intention.
that was the intention of the music you know glad I could convey that idea It is difficult at times to think thru solutionless tragedies but for me since I sort of shelter my self from the media I did not know of this tragedy till I saw what Chris had done in the video work..
I also did not know, but when I did - I do not see how this information is useful to me. Context means a lot. These things happen. They are tragic, but people die and sometimes they die very unexpectedly and some times absurdly. One acquaintance told me that a woman he knew died by falling from a bus step. She just fell - that's it. And the fall was very unsuccessful - and falling from a bus step is almost like just tripping and falling - it shouldn't be fatal. But it was. One minute the person is there, next - he is not.
But what's important is what you want to say with it. That the world is cruel? It is not a good view, imho. That the fight for freedom is tough? Well, yeah. Always.
Why increase the feelings of hurt over someone's death if you offer no inner solution to that, no special meaning? I believe this is where the responsibility of the artist should kick in.
I do not condemn though.
I don't feel I have a responsibility to offer a resolution.
Most music that I know does not do that. John Lennon is an excellent example of what you are saying but he certainly didn't do it all his career, or consistently in all of his work. Bob Dylan is another - but these guys are exceptions.
I think the most interesting aspect of your comment is that the possibility of execution of this responsibility is almost absent in instrumental music....
Fair enough about source issues, time and the nature of the music. That said, my previous response was primarily about the visual content.
LV
When I compose, especially with words, I set out to capture a part of my life and thought. Since unlike you I do not write music for other people as goal or as the reason to create trying to give a resolution for a situation out of my hands is totally out of scope.
QuoteI think the most interesting aspect of your comment is that the possibility of execution of this responsibility is almost absent in instrumental music....
Why? Music can create emotion. Emotion of despair is not a good emotion to evoke in other people.
QuoteSince unlike you I do not write music for other people as goal
This is not my goal, you misunderstood me or I was not accurate with my wording and made you misunderstand. But it is a separate topic.
I just wanted to say that music is public and when you release it, although you depict your own thoughts and feelings, I think you should think about how it might affect the listeners. But because I think so, I do not believe everybody should share my views, of course, so no offense meant.
LV - I refer to your statement / belief at one time that a composer does not exist w/o an audience. (besides the composer).
Despair is a human emotion and experience. Many Russian's portray that emotion famously - Shostakovitch, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.... and I indeed like their work a great deal.
What you are suggesting sounds like censorship - even if self-imposed.
where to draw the line between the audence and the creation sometime we just go beyond audience comprehension ... he has gone out there on that stuff ..,
what is love with out the object of love. what is self with out the self awareness of being ... what is being with out love of self or others for that matter.. what is the matter with me it is all semantics
some things on the net can be "too" random but that is the joy of them and their persuit of experiencing new things randomly mixed into their effects of being
we can move mountains with just a word, you know that is right? just one sound is all it takes to dissolve the whole universe and then were are we at?
In the meantime .
This is Neda Agha Soltan, a 27 year old philosophy student, who was shot by the church-police :
(http://i40.tinypic.com/29w4q5z.jpg)
Neda, the Farsi word for voice..
Quote from: "uncloned"LV - I refer to your statement / belief at one time that a composer does not exist w/o an audience. (besides the composer).
Well, yeah. But I didn't mean it in a way that music should be composed with a goal of giving it to other people. I meant a different thing, but it is very easy to understand it the other way - I guess I am just not very clear about it. Let's discuss this some time later if it gets brought up again;)
Quote from: "uncloned"
What you are suggesting sounds like censorship - even if self-imposed.
I guess so. I guess something like censorship.
Censorship isn't always bad. We impose a lot of censorship on ourselves - like not cursing in front of people we respect, like not saying bad things about our friend or whatever.
Art in my opinion can be an instrument of influence on people's souls and should be used carefully. There were several tunes I did not release because I did not like the effect they made. It doesn't mean one should put out only happy tunes. I just think that every pain, every conflict in art should have an "inner" solution. It rarely can be pointed to though and works on subconscious level. But it is not an illusion. And there are certainly even very famous works of art that deliver destruction without solution.
Personal vision of mine ;)
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"This is Neda Agha Soltan, a 27 year old philosophy student, who was shot by the church-police
Media got the wrong picture and that's another woman with a similar/same name. The woman on the picture is still alive. Reference. (http://wipoun.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-wrong-neda-photo-became-irans-face.html)
Yep - that wrong picture shows up in the video - I think only as backdrop. The mis identification first came out a day or two after I posted the video.
hmm.. I was already afraid of it being the wrong information.
Things are getting to float around on the Inet, so no certainty..
The rest of the video is still accurate as far as I know.
To be honest, sounds like a hoax.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6601570.ece
hoax or not, some people were shot there.
this is inarguable, indeed