So it would be easier to remove/move several pattern from the sequenser at the patterns view.
Any comments, would it be hard to make this work?
The work flow would be much better this way.
I would agree with you 100%, Rakib. In addition to what you mentioned, if done correctly, it would [or at least should] allow copying and pasting of multiple patterns as well (such as pattern strings) (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...)
So, your signature states that, if you insert two circumflex accents (^) next to each other, it makes you blush like crazy? Perhaps you shouldn't do that then. Just a test. ^^ It would appear that it does indeed work.
Yes, I want the ability to move a bitter part of a song in a much smoother way than today.
OT: You don't like my signature? I am a humble guy!
Nope, it was just a joke based on the fact that it is the blushing emoticon. I just thought that it was kind of funny (in a way). As for the topic itself. Here is my thought. If the pattern amount was increased again (possible, but doubtful), then a feature like this would be vital. A thought that I had is that, if the pattern number were increased to, in my example that I thought of, 1,048,576, then making 472,368 of them using today's version would be a nightmare. And copying 624 patterns in a One Two, Three Four (http://www.homestarrunner.com/onetwo.html) fashion, forget that. You've heard of "Got it!*," well I say to that, "forget it!" Another thought that I had was that the row amount could be increased to, in my example once again, either 65,536 (1,024 patterns:1 pattern) or the aforementioned 1,048,576 (16,384 patterns:1 pattern). At its current stage, the only good things that I can find in the new version (based on what I use the program for), are the fixed pattern name bug (though I do not name my patterns too often) and the fact that it opens MO3 files. That pattern cut is not cool for what I use the program for. In fact, when I look at the situation that I had, I am not sure that the pattern number itself was the problem, but rather the instruments' sizes themselves (which, by the way, did indeed total 1.04 GB).
* Wow, I must have lost my remote again! Hey, Self, hurry up and find that remote and take your turn before the next player starts worrying like crazy and quits! :lol:
Seriously, jugding from what I've seen your previous "modules" looked like, I highly doubt that OpenMPT is the tool you want to work with. Playing one megasample after another on dozens of patterns is not really what OpenMPT is meant to be used for and I've never seen a module that would really have had problems with the 200+ patterns limitation.
What would you recommend I use for such a task then? Do note that I like to watch the patterns go by in the list. For example, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... If I used 1,024 row patterns, that would not be doable. Note: That does not mean that the row count should be reduced to 64 (unless you plan on about, say, multipying .52's pattern count by, oh, about 20 or more! That would make it 1,300,000. The chances of any of my modules having that many patterns would not be very great at all! The hiest one that I can come up with (at least doing two files) is 624 * 757 = 472,368. I suppose that if I multiplied that by 15 (7,085,520), that would be a problem, but, because I use least common multiples, I may not need to do that (though I would with 13, that would be a problematic 6,140,784.) Let's see, what would be the LCM of 472,368 and 15? The answer: 2,361,840, that would still be a problem!
As you even stated yourself that you were just joining soundtracks of video games: any wave editor can do that. and you can even watch the waveform there, and you don't have to watch empty patterns scrolling by.
That would probably be great for files that are already in wave format. Most of my file now though are based on other ones and many of the songs are not in wave format and some of them would not work in that format due to large sizes. For example, some of my songs are suites and would probably not be especially good for my hard drive in wave format (the Chex Quest one is a semi-excellent example). The reason why I say semi-excellent is because that suite is already constructed from wave files. That file by itself is 516 MB. Another one would be the One Must Fall 2097 suite. That song, however, is not composed of single wave files. What I mean by that is some parts have all 64 rows filled with a note. That file is 643 KB. In addition, my mind judges lengths based on pattern numbers. For example, I know that Candy Château (a song from Rayman) is 28 patterns at a tempo of 125 and a ticks per row count of 6. I guess that it is just a matter of that I am used to Modplug Tracker and, in my mind, it is like the OQO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO) of the trackers. What I mean by that is this. When I have looked at trackers in the past, none of them have worked for what I use Modplug Tracker for (especially the OpenMPT and [probably] MO3 files.
Ok, I think that's enough. But would it be hard to make this thing work?
Maybe. Copying patterns would require some major rewrite of the clipboard code so I'd rather check the possibility of just duplicating or moving patterns, which could be doable.
I suppose that the ability to duplicate an entire pattern row would be the equivalent of copying and pasting it. In that case, go ahead and do that (if you can). Of course, it would probably not do me much good (unless the pattern quantity was increased).
Moving several patterns is my main issue, if it would work I'd be very happy.
I've never thought about it, but moving several patterns at once would make the workflow quicker. And I'm all for a fast workflow. :)
Quote from: "maleek"I've never thought about it, but moving several patterns at once would make the workflow quicker. And I'm all for a fast workflow. :)
i agree with that... also duplicate and copy on multiple patterns would be highly appreciated.
And I agree with BSV.
Quote from: "Really Weird Person"I suppose that the ability to duplicate an entire pattern row would be the equivalent of copying and pasting it. In that case, go ahead and do that (if you can). Of course, it would probably not do me much good (unless the pattern quantity was increased).
No it's not, because one thing works directly in MPT, while the other uses the Windows clipboard. Currently, MPT can only handle one pattern in the clipboard, so I will just try to implement duplicate / insert / move for now.
I got deleting working already, but marking doesn't work correctly yet; or well... marking works, but when you select another pattern after marking, the order list might look
very weird...
Doesn't this make you drool? :P
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/thumbs/multisel2598eu22.jpg) (http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/multisel2598eu22.png)
That screenshot certainly shows the feature's potential. I am not sure that copying the +++ patterns would do much good, but that is beside the point. Something that I found odd: When the focus is not the pattern workspace (where the notes, instruments, and effects are), I can use Writing Pad (a feature of Tablet PC Input Panel) to insert characters, but when the workspace is in focus, that does not work. By the way, what format is imf? I do not believe that I recognize that one. I do not seem to find it in the file list, so perhaps it is a new format. Perhaps it will support more than 4,000 patterns. That would be a good thing. Let's see here... 16,974 ÷ 16 = 1,060.875. With the program's current status, that does me no good. The position jump only allows jumping up to pattern 256. In addition to that, I like to watch the patterns go one by one (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...) anyway.
Quotewhat format is imf? I do not believe that I recognize that one.
Imago Orpheus, I've finished the imf loader yesterday.
Oh, I see
Is it similar to some of the existing formats (such as IT)?
Quote from: "Jojo".
Doesn't this make you drool? :P
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/thumbs/multisel2598eu22.jpg) (http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/multisel2598eu22.png)
It certainly does. I hope you really make it!
I got everything working so far except duplicate patterns and obviously copy / paste. I just had an idea... With the new echo paste mode (which was intended for echos), a "multi-pattern paste" is already possible, so I might get multi-pattern copy&paste working somehow.
Quote from: "Really Weird Person"Oh, I see
Is it similar to some of the existing formats (such as IT)?
The tracker looks like ScreamTracker and ImpulseTracker (textmode with custom chars, waveform visualization like in IT, borders like in ST3) and works a bit like a combination of IT and FT2. In some points it's as advanced as IT, in some points it's more like FT2 and sometimes it's even better than the two, because it also supports reverb and chorus and a bunch of effects that luckily nobody (?) used so it's not too bad that they're missing in MPT's (and SchismTracker's) loader.
What it the echo function?
Echo paste continues to paste in the next pattern if the past data is going beyond the pattern end. It got its name because... well, it's mostly useful for creating echo channels (no need to fill up the first few rows of the echo channel with a second paste anymore). You can see the new "toggle echo paste" button in the toolbar in the screenshot above.
Quote from: "Jojo"Echo paste continues to paste in the next pattern if the past data is going beyond the pattern end. It got its name because... well, it's mostly useful for creating echo channels (no need to fill up the first few rows of the echo channel with a second paste anymore). You can see the new "toggle echo paste" button in the toolbar in the screenshot above.
Wouldn't it be more usefull to get everything that is cut-off from that pattern be pasted at the top of the current?
I always duplicate my patterns, so I only need to make the echo once, and then add the notes at the top anyway.
That (the echo paste function) sounds interesting. That sounds interesting indeed. (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail188.html)
Echo sounds nice, but I think it would be better to have it as a tick in the preferences view and not in the pattern view.
LPChip, how would that be useful for an echo?! I've done this on request by ko0x, and it's exactly like he wanted it and I think it's very useful this way. It's not like the echo of the next pattern has to be same as the echo of the current pattern.
Rakib: It's both in the preferences and on the pattern editor, because I found it a bit dangerous sometimes to use echopaste so I wanted an option to turn it off quickly.
Jojo: That seems reasonable. Just out of curiosity: When do you think that the new version will be available (likely through SourceForge (http://www.sourceforge.net))? Something that would make this feature worthwhile for me is an increase in the pattern limit. That is the sole reason why I do not use version .53 to make my songs. I have it on my computer because it opens MO3 files. Version .52 does not do that. More often than not the LCM (Least Common Multiple) of the numbers is greater than 4,000. This is especially true if the numbers have to be multiplied together. That generally happens if:
1. Any or all of the numbers is prime
2. There are pattern breaks (which I tend to refer to as cuts) involved (and if the breaks are not exactly half, there will be additional multiplication involved)
What I mean by that is this: When the break is exactly half (32 rows), I simply double that song's length and multiply by whatever is needed. I the break is on row 24, I must multiply those numbers and then multiply that result by eight.
@LP & Jojo: From what I understand, if your pattern sequence goes [4][4], then using the 'echo paste' in the first [4] will paste it over the top of second [4], which is what LP's after.
To be honest, I think that this is actually more than just an 'echo paste' -- perhaps we could relabel it as 'overflow paste' or something. :)
Ok, if you draw me a 16x16 icon with "overflow" or something like that, we can talk about it again :P Actually, that's a much better wording. thanks for the hint.
@RWP: It is very unlikely that more patterns will be allowed again in upcoming versions, sorry.
Another thought (which I do not care for as much) is the row quantity being increased. The pattern break allows breaking up to row 65,536 (256² and 64 × 1,024), so that is an option. Something else that is an occasional problem is the position jump. It is not affected by the x-parameter effect. That would be vital if the number of [extended (more than 64 rows)] patterns exceeds 256.
RWP, maybe take those request on a new topic?
Oh, we're well aware of his requests already... Doesn't make them easier to implement, though.
However, if you want, you can try out the latest unstable OpenMPT build to see how selecting multiple orders works:
http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe
Be aware, though, that this an unstable version, all kinds of weird things may happen. Well, maybe not, but you have been warned at least. I don't recommend using it yet, but trying out the new features (esp. the order stuff) would be appreciated.
I'm aware of the fact that the selection can not be "unselected" by clicking on either the first or last order of the selection. Everything else should work in theory, though.
Down to one channel and one row, eh? That is interesting (but not bad). Actually, the one row thing is rather good because that is how many I have to use from time time. I see though that you forgot to change that display. It reads "1 rows" instead of "1 row." Something odd: When I make the first pattern one row, subsequent patterns have 32 rows instead of one. I am not sure what the PC, PCs, and double circumflex accent note things are though. I assuming that the double tide (~~) one is for the note cut (I believe that it was a single tilde before.). As for the part about hard, implement actions the more than 4,000 pattern feature has already been used, so I do not see why you could not simply reuse that code in this version. Other than the sequential limit, this version is great! OK, I figured out what those items are (and feel somewhat sad because I do remember the note cut being represented by circumflex accents. I guess the representation of it as two circumflex accents instead of the words note cut in the dropdown is what threw me for a loop. Again, this is not bad, it is just somthing that I noticed and found odd. I do not look at the status bar too often. Now the mystery is what the parameter control things do. That I am still unsure of.
Oh well, I didn't expect so much off-topic feedback, but it has to be answered somewhere and the thread is already kind of "done", I'll try to answer everything here:
QuoteI see though that you forgot to change that display. It reads "1 rows" instead of "1 row."
I guess you mean in the pattern properties. I've fixed that now. If you found it somewhere else, please let me know.
QuoteSomething odd: When I make the first pattern one row, subsequent patterns have 32 rows instead of one.
Thanks for the heads-up about this one, I knew that something like this would still be present somewhere.
QuoteI am not sure what the PC, PCs (...) are
It's the new "param control" notes which can be used to control... well... plugin params. Relabs might elaborate on those as soon as the implementation is fully done.
Quote(...)and double circumflex accent note things are
Aheeem . ^
^ notes are Note Cut, they have been there forever. However, the ~~ was not. ~~ is not Note Cut, it's Note Fade (but works like Note Cut in sample mode). There was nothing like a single tilde before. Actually, Note Fade existed in Impulse Tracker but you were not able to input it in the editor, so SchismTracker and OpenMPT (and also XMPlay) added support for those Note Fade commands lately - Obviously only for the IT (and MPTM) format. Modules using Note Fade commands will sound correct in Impulse Tracker, but you won't be able to enter this command yourself in its editor.
QuoteAs for the part about hard, implement actions the more than 4,000 pattern feature has already been used, so I do not see why you could not simply reuse that code in this version.
It might not have caused problems for you, but it was very problematic anyway, and mostly untested. As said, this is only an unstable development version, so it might come back, but the changes are rather low ATM.
QuoteI guess the representation of it as two circumflex accents instead of the words note cut in the dropdown is what threw me for a loop.
Yes, this is a bit unfortunate but a lot of code has been changed recently because of the Param Controls, and this was one (unintended? I dunno) part of the changes.
I know, you are probably going to hate me for putting here, but, bug report.
It would appear that if the pattern row (in the pattern editor) is in focus, and horizontal scrolling is done on the mouse:
1. The selection is not seen right away.
2. When going to a pattern beyond what is visible, the list display does not change. The pattern number itsef does, but in the list display, it does not. For example, if you can see patterns 13 - 38 and you go to pattern 40 with the Go To... function, you still see patterns 13 - 38 instead of 15 - 41 (maybe 40 or 42, but that is not as relevant).
I am not exactly sure if I am clear enough on this report, but I try to be as clear-cut as I can.
As those don't appear bugs specific to this temporary build, yes, I will hate you for not posting them in the bug reports section - Especially since the first bug report is too short for me to comprehend what you mean. About the 2nd bug, I can't seem to reproduce this, Goto goes directly to the order in the order list as well.
That first part of the report (which I maybe did make too short, I did not realize that until I read your post.) is referring to when multiple patterns are selected. For example, if the last pattern is selected and horizontal scrolling is used on the mouse to go to the beginning, the selection is not seen right away (but the cotext menu is still correct). If the scroll bar is used, however, all of the patterns are visibly blue (indicating their selection). If this does not help, then helping may be a challenge.
I used the echo paste to see what it did. That is excellent. It pastes data into the next pattern (for example, if you paste a pattern on row 33, the second half of it is automatically moved to the next pattern). Something that I found odd about it though is that when you undo the paste, it is undone as two separate actions. I thought that was odd.
Yes it is odd but it can not be done better atm.
Ok, feature implemented in the new test version. If anything is going wrong, please tell us to re-open this request.