I just wanted to congratulate Saga Musix for implementing FM support. I just updated and played the "Yuzu - Yu-Lib" song and it sounds just like listening to the Adlib music from the 90's DOS games. That OPL chip has a distinct sound (if weak percussion, hahah) and I love it.
Thanks for the thanks :)
If you use the mptm fileformat you are not limited to the 9 channel limit. Doubling up the drums will make them very powerful. :)
The number of channels doesn't really change the fact that two-operator (or even four-operator) FM modulation produces very weak drum sounds. I'd say it's a very well-known limitation that is best compensated with small drum samples (like on the Sega Megadrive).
Lol, thanks OwO
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 13, 2019, 19:35:55
The number of channels doesn't really change the fact that two-operator (or even four-operator) FM modulation produces very weak drum sounds. I'd say it's a very well-known limitation that is best compensated with small drum samples (like on the Sega Megadrive).
Ah yes it does, that's something I only learned recently, since we didn't own a Megadrive (SNES was better ;D) so I had limited exposure, but I'm facinated by all the retro consoles now and re-living stuff I missed out on at the time. And I'm finding that I love the sound of the Megadrive FM chip - it can't do "real" sounds like the SNES, but because it's a higher sampling rate (sure I've got the wrong term there) the sound is richer and clearer, and any good funky bass guitar type instruments on the Megadrive just simply can't be replicated as well on the SNES.
Quote from: YuzuMSX on March 13, 2019, 20:43:12
Lol, thanks OwO
Ah, hi :) That song sounded to me like it could have been in a 90's DOS game, or demoscene intro, it was very nostalgic for me. I hope you make more sometime.
Quote from: Domarius on March 14, 2019, 05:08:03
Ah, hi :) That song sounded to me like it could have been in a 90's DOS game, or demoscene intro, it was very nostalgic for me. I hope you make more sometime.
Hey. You can listen more songs with this link
http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry (http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry)
Seriously the Ad-lib Had 9Channels (2-Op) also Ad-Lib Gold had 18 channels also 4Op mode divide to 6.
Sorry idk
Quote from: YuzuMSX on March 14, 2019, 05:14:25
Hey. You can listen more songs with this link
http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry (http://battleofthebits.org/barracks/Profile/JonKaruzu/AllEntry)
Seriously the Ad-lib Had 9Channels (2-Op) also Ad-Lib Gold had 18 channels also 4Op mode divide to 6.
Sorry idk
Oh cool! I'll be listening to those while I work...
I remember hearing that the Adlib Gold had more channels, but I also remember that no games used them, hahah. Funny that it took till 30 years later for people to be composing songs with that many FM channels, in OpenMPT ;)
Well, even back then there were games that made use of the OPL3 chip (with 18 voices), but OPL2 (9 voices) was more common as it was the lowest common denominator. OPL3 or compatible can be found in SB16 onwards and in many clones, but older SoundBlasters only had OPL2 (or dual OPL2) support and writing soundtracks for both OPL chips was probably not worth the effort. Some games with MIDI-based music supported both, by having two different drivers to translate the MIDI commands.
Yes, I found you could nearly always tell whether the composer designed the music for MIDI or FM, and then added support for the other. Music made for MIDI could be very orchestral, and the FM version sounded weak in comparison, eg. Ultima 8: Pagan.
Music made for FM had the instruments perfectly tweaked to sound a certain way, and then the MIDI version missed those subtleties and so didn't sound as good even though it used "digital instruments" which theoretically should be better., eg. Tyrian.
Quote from: Domarius on March 12, 2019, 03:24:59
I just wanted to congratulate Saga Musix for implementing FM support. I just updated and played the "Yuzu - Yu-Lib" song and it sounds just like listening to the Adlib music from the 90's DOS games. That OPL chip has a distinct sound (if weak percussion, hahah) and I love it.
Yeah, thanks SaGa. U.U
I've had the most fun messing with square waves and remixing the boss battle theme from Final Fantasy Legend 2 for the Game Boy. It's cool that OPL instruments take up so little space even when compared to extremely tiny looped samples. It's also cool that you can recreate that $1 toy piano from those memes almost perfectly in FM.
Also, SaGa, is this FM emulation for OPL2 or OPL3? Because squares, even period sines, even period absolute sines, and 'derived squares' are supported in OpenMPT even in S3M format, and those waveforms are not in OPL2. Are those extra OPL3 waveforms supported in the actual Scream Tracker 3? And I know OPL3 is backwards compatible.
The emulated chip is OPL3. ST3 only has OPL2 support, so it does not support those extra waveforms that you mentioned, but you can use them e.g. in SchismTracker. So if you want to be 100% compatible, avoid using them in S3M format. More advanced OPL3 features (i.e. 4-op patches) are currently not supported but they may come eventually (of course not in the S3M format).
Also, you can go a bit easier on that Shift key. The last time I checked, there is no capitalized "G" in my nick. ;)
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 18, 2019, 22:01:03
The emulated chip is OPL3. ST3 only has OPL2 support, so it does not support those extra waveforms that you mentioned, but you can use them e.g. in SchismTracker. So if you want to be 100% compatible, avoid using them in S3M format. More advanced OPL3 features (i.e. 4-op patches) are currently not supported but they may come eventually (of course not in the S3M format).
Just as I thought. If ScreamTracker 3 doesn't support OPL3, why did you take the extra effort to support it, and why does OpenMPT extend the S3M format to support those extra waveforms? Just curious.
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 18, 2019, 22:01:03
Also, you can go a bit easier on that Shift key. The last time I checked, there is no capitalized "G" in my nick. ;)
(´・ω・`) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaGa)
Quote from: nikku4211 on March 18, 2019, 22:51:39
Just as I thought. If ScreamTracker 3 doesn't support OPL3, why did you take the extra effort to support it, and why does OpenMPT extend the S3M format to support those extra waveforms? Just curious.
It's actually
more effort to have different feature sets in S3M and MPTM than just being able to use the same code in both formats.
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 19, 2019, 09:29:48
It's actually more effort to have different feature sets in S3M and MPTM than just being able to use the same code in both formats.
Still, if Scream Tracker 3 doesn't have OPL3 support, why did you give OpenMPT OPL3 support in the first place rather than just stopping at OPL2? I know it's neat to have and it's not like, say, the Innovation SSI-2001 is compatible with OPL2.
Quote from: nikku4211 on March 19, 2019, 18:08:18
Still, if Scream Tracker 3 doesn't have OPL3 support, why did you give OpenMPT OPL3 support in the first place rather than just stopping at OPL2?
Simply put: Why would I go and rip out the OPL3 parts of the OPL3 emulator, especially since MPTM can use some OPL3 features? You cannot think of S3M and MPTM implementations are two separate things in the OpenMPT code - 99% of the implementation is shared, so there is no simple "just use OPL2 features and throw away all OPL3 features" thing in the code. However, your complaints have been successful, in the next OpenMPT version you won't be able to use the extra OPL3 waveforms in S3M files, even though it makes the code more complex.
That's probably going to break my example song then... Can you save it as mptm format and include it like that then? Unless you make it so that one can choose... :P
No, it's not going to break existing songs, you just cannot use it in new songs anymore.
Ah, that's great. :)
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 19, 2019, 19:43:25
However, your complaints have been successful, in the next OpenMPT version you won't be able to use the extra OPL3 waveforms in S3M files, even though it makes the code more complex.
I'm okay with the S3M extensions, I was just curious. For compatibility, that's what we've Compatibility Export for.
Also, this move would've actually
broken compatibility with OpenMPT-extended S3Ms using OPL3 waveforms if you weren't as careful as you were.
As I already wrote in reply to LPChip: No, it won't break existing songs. When removing non-standard features, I always make sure that they can still be used with legacy files.
Quote from: Saga Musix on March 19, 2019, 20:15:09
As I already wrote in reply to LPChip: No, it won't break existing songs. When removing non-standard features, I always make sure that they can still be used with legacy files.
Yeah, I posted without reading, but I did edit it accordingly. That was fast, though.
Well I guess if the OPL3 specific stuff is locked out of S3M but still able to be saved with MTPM, that is the way it "should" be I guess :) Very cool.
R.I.P. The Ability To Make FM-Extended S3Ms
2018-2019
Right when I was just experimenting with ya.
I will never forget the fun I had.
Yes, I did not upgrade OpenMPT, and yes, I can just make MPTMs. I'm waiting until 4-op support is added first.
Quote from: nikku4211 on April 14, 2019, 14:24:46
I'm waiting until 4-op support is added first.
So... 4-op instruments isn't supported in OpenMPT yet, even though the emulated OPL3 is there?
Well, guess I had to go back to AT2 for 4-op experimentations. Never liked the keyboard only interface on that tracker, tbh :-\
But still, OpenMPT already solved my needs for 2-op experimentations.
Don't give up your hope yet, Saga is planning to implement full OPL3 at some point
OPL3 support is about more than just adding two more operators to the GUI, so it will take some more design in particular on how to handle the extra modulation possibilities with those other operators.