Happy 2009! I'm back after several months and after the resolved surround sound/rear track issue.
As some may know, DSK makes incredibly awesome VSTi's that are on the cutting edge of music software. Among those VSTi's is DSK SaxophoneZ, which is the only FREE quality saxophone VSTi I can find anywhere on the Net. Impressed, I downloaded it several times only to find that, when I loaded the .dll file in MPT 1.17.02.48, I get the "Exception" error message and the notice that it's not a valid plugin. I also saw that it has .sem files for it's built-in effects and that it was made with Synth Maker.
What makes it more confusing is that I was able to get DSK mini DRUMZ 2 working with no problems.
If anyone can please help me get this VSTi working in MPT, I would appreciate it to the highest.
Not sure, but it may be due to missing libraries that some of the modules may use. I was able to get some of my plugins working after installing msvc2008 or other libraries.
I have it at home, so will try to check if it's working. Actually, I can't remember now.
And, .sem modules come from Synthedit, not Synthmaker.
This DSK has some very nice modules.
No problem loading the saxophone VSTi in OMPT (latest beta)
Didn't find any .sem files, just the .dll.
I don't have experience with VSTi plugins, so far I worked with samples.
So after 'Edit' I got the GUI of the saxophone.. Then what ? I don't have a MIDI keyboard, so how do I get sound ?
I downloaded and tested, got no errors or any other problems. maybe it is correct what Nahkranoth about you missin the runtime packages that are required for you to run the vst's?
Sam: You can assign the VSTi to an instrument and then play on the pc keyboard, just like you would enter notes into the pattern.
Thanks Jojo ! Great, my supposition in that direction is confirmed. I'm gonna try out that buddhist monk.. :)
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"I'm gonna try out that buddhist monk.. :)
I think LOL using that monk is guaranteed :D
[EDIT] To the OP:
It seems if you install some msvc redistributables, DSK_SaxophoneZ will be working OK. Please try and post here whether you succeed or not.
I haven't had any problem, just download the zip and put it in the directory, then load it with the plugin manager, and sounds great.
Delay Lama is fun indeed...
Yes, the DSK modules are great, but i've also encountered a few problems with them, but all that i've used from DSK have not any trouble loading.
Assuming you're using a typical Windows system, i suggest you separate the .dll and the GUI files -- i believe the the GUI files should go in a separate folder and the .dll OUTSIDE that folder. But most of DSK VSTi's don't use that setup anymore, so you may have an old version. Anyway, try different directory setups within the directory that MPT expects to find your VSTs.
Maybe one of the devs can determine HOW Modplug discerns whether or not a plug-in is a "valid" VST, and let us know...
Alright, I found the msvc2008 download on Microsoft's site, installed the new runtime, and tried again to load the DSK plugin. The same thing occurred.
Yes, the .sem files are in a separate folder inside of the plugin folder, and yes I know how to install VST effects and instruments in MPT; this plugin is in the same folder as all the other successful plugins. I have also tried DSK Synthopia but to no avail.
I do believe I have the latest release of MPT (1.17.02.48), and yes it is on Windows XP.
QuoteI do believe I have the latest release of MPT (1.17.02.48 )
No, you don't. Last one is 1.17.02.52.
The .sem files should be in a subdirectory named "DSK SaxophoneZ".
Hope this solve it
Okay, so I didn't have the latest version of MPT. Well, I tried to load it a third time, and there went the same "Exception" issue. The .sem files already come in their own folders upon extraction. I even tried another program designed primarily for VSTs, and the DSK plugins didn't load there at all.
I hope that it's not a PC issue, because I'm not understanding how it's working for everyone else but me.
Thanks for that info.
Have you tried downloading the files again? Your copy of the plugin itself could be corrupted. Maybe someone here who has the same plugin can compare the hash of their files with yours to check.
That sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how to do that. The site I downloaded it from, rekkerd.org, does advise against the use of a download manager, but even using Firefox's built-in downloader was faulty, and I have dial up, so there aren't many options for me in downloading.
In the meantime, someone on the site had the same issue with a similar plugin and got the answer that the container wasn't renamed, which could be causing MPT to not recognize the plugins.
I'm still amazed that the drums and Dreamz plugin installed and worked perfectly fine (maybe because they're relatively small downloads).
If anyone could volunteer to do a hash check, I have the .zip files. Thanks.
I just did an MD5 hash check on the SaxophoneZ zip file, and it's:
a549390cd184cd7b467bf2ec0b774e04
EDIT: I also did one on the Synthopia plugin; Here it is:
154b38c56e7cbaaf5cda982fcb9f761e
Matches with the hash of the zip-file which worked for me.
Just an idea, check OMPT settings AnthonyGSSM. Sampling rate, bits, also try ASIO/direct sound, etc.... you know, the problem could hide somewhere there.
I have tried every possible setting I have for sampling and bits and everything in the sound card tab. I do have ASIO and have even used that, but the problem is persistent.
Each time I try to add both of them as new plugins, after the Exception message and then the following "not a valid VST plugin" message, I cancel the plugin popup box. When I go back, each of the plugins is listed in the "VST Audio Effects" folder and NOT in the "VST Instruments" folder. I've tried to add the listing anyway to get the message that MPT has an issue with it and that it's "(null)". When I add it to my plugin list, only the name appears and all parameters, including the Edit, are grayed out.
Maybe it's a sound card issue, because these are the only ones I've tried that include multilayering. I really hope it's not my sound card.
ahhhh
(http://i40.tinypic.com/4q0ol3.jpg)
ok, moving along, i doubt it is any hardware issue (like soundcard example). You should try a fresh windows install (dont have to mess up your old one if you don't want to, just open a virtual pc, and try it there), maybe some runtimes, user programs, services or registry settings are interfering with each other. Drivers could be rechecked also. Also, you could try to install a fresh OMPT in a different folder, it could be some pre-plugin/program setting garbage data that is messing with the new ones.
I've had something similar with Xlutop Chainer. I removed the plugins, closed openmpt, reinstalled Xlutop, readded the plugins and it worked. Have you tried that?
psishock: I felt like that several times with this PC; that particular method would save on window replacement costs.
A virtual PC might help, because this HP Pavilion is so old that it could be anything that's causing the problem. Actually I checked my drivers before you posted, and although all of the drivers are dated either 2001 or 2004, they work properly, including DirectX 9.0c. I don't know how I would ever update at least some of them, if any, because they stopped making updates for some of them, and I'm using Windows XP SP2 on a Win98 system, but that shouldn't affect anything (then again, like I said, anything is possible).
I have four versions of OMPT, so I guess I could reinstall the latest one (1.17.02.52) in a desktop folder and see.
LPChip: Yes, I have tried that somewhat. Are you talking about removing all of the other already working plugins? I upgraded from 1.17.02.48 to 52, reloaded the plugins and reinstalled both plugins at least twice, but I did reinstall them after I added the others, so I will try to add the DSK plugins to the list first after using a fresh OMPT.
No need to remove all the plugins. I only reinstalled Xlutop while keeping my others in the list. Though, you can still try that...
Yep, I just tried to empty my plugin list to add the DSK plugins. No dice.
Back to missing libraries: I have the msvc2008 library, but what other libraries (besides the DirectX 9.0c package) would I need to run certain VSTi plugins? Because these are multilayered and that might be causing the problem.
My advice is to ditch that goddamn SaxophoneZ (because it's basically a soundfont+player) and try to find good soundfont+SFZ.
Or maybe try this:
http://www.dreamvortex.co.uk/dvs_saxophone.zip
Use velocity and pitchbend to achieve more or less realistic sound.
[EDIT]Have you tried any other hosts?
VSTHost for example?
Yes, I have tried VSTHost and even SAVIHost. There, when I try to add both plugins, the CPU will labor for a minute and then produce absolutely nothing.
My computer has no support for Soundfonts; I think that's the problem.
Nahkranoth: Thanks for the links and the very tempting advice. I just still don't understand how everyone else can seem to use DSK layered plugins except myself.
Is there a VST plugin or other program that will either make my soundcard Soundfont-compatible or that will allow me to use Soundfont-based VSTi's?
Quote from: "AnthonyGSSM"My computer has no support for Soundfonts; I think that's the problem.
No, it's not the problem. You don't need SF-compatible soundcard to use soundfonts. Actually, OMPT can use instruments, saved in soundfonts (and DLS too). It will work correctly (kinda questionable tho) with some early SF-specs, like 1 velocity layer only. It can open more complex soundfonts too, but only one layer will be accessible and it may have some glitches.
To see that it really works:
Right-click in the instrument tree (to the left of pattern view), select
"add sound bank", and point to the
c:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\gm.dls it's a collection of those ugly sounds that are used when you play midi files. Now, as the bank appeared in the MPT's tree, you can use the instruments contained there.
Quote from: "AnthonyGSSM"Is there a VST plugin or other program that will either make my soundcard Soundfont-compatible or that will allow me to use Soundfont-based VSTi's?
The following links will lead thee to the VSTi which can use soundfonts
correctly:
http://www.project5.com/products/instruments/sfz_player/sfz197.exe
and if you hear that something is still wrong with some sounds:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/kru99/VSTSynthFont.dll-very cool plugin, but crashes on me every 5 minutes, maybe you'll be more lucky.
Nahkranoth: My thanks goes to you once again. I knew about being able to use Soundfonts without a Soundfont-compatible card. But what about plugins and VSTi's that are SF-based?
I hate to keep going on and on about it, but it must be something that can be done to use these.
By the way, the DVS Saxophone plugin is pretty good. lol I just checked out those same two SF programs yesterday.
You can use literally every sf-based vsti, except one that you will hardly ever find, which is made specifically to use with sf-enabled soundcards. So relax and bring us some music already :-D
I'm back. The music is coming along.
As I have downloaded and tried to load other various VSTs and VSTi's, I get the same messages (the Exception, "not a valid VST"). The puzzing (and frustrating) part is that others with Modplug Tracker and VSTHost can use the same plugins with no problem.
It has to be a PC issue, but I don't know how to search for any help on Google or who to ask, so I'm posting it here in case anyone else had the same issue. Maybe this topic could be escalated/moved (?).
In the meantime, I'm trying to find alternative VST/VSTi's and it's going well, but I would still like to make use of the ones that every one else seems to be using.
Can you give us the list of those specific vst, just to know what they have in common? Maybe all of them are some kind of specific synthedit-made soundfont players? Not that it can help but just out of curiosity.
Yes, here is the list that I've gotten the "Exception" and "...not a valid VST plugin" messages with:
DSK SaxophoneZ
DSK Synthopia
DSK DrumZ - MachineZ
Kassiopeia! 1.0
Loop Drive 3.3
Vocov 2.13
TAL-Vocoder
oxytocin.05.06.2008
SuperDrumFX
Voyager 1.1***
***Voyager 1.1 worked once (after it hung the first time; worked the second time with the other plugins cleared), but most times it causes OMPT to hang, forcing me to close it from Task Manager. It didn't generate the Exception message.
Have you considered reinstalling windows?
It seems like there's something not right on your system that makes your system unstable enough for certain plugins to not run.
EDIT: to test that, you could create a new profile (in windows xp, control panel, users, new user) and login using that profile, then test this again.
Everything working fine on my side except Kassiopeia. The problem is that it has some envelope modules that crash on PCs with AMD processors.
Voyager will hang your pc for quite a long time everytime it starts. But it is worth the wait. (It can easily eat you CPU on some patches, after all it is 4osc synth with LOTS of processing).
Have you tried dependency walker to see if the problem is with some missing/malfunctioning dll?
I would also guess that it does not depend on an "unstable" windows installation or whatver (please explain me with common sense why that would trigger a "not a valid VST plugin" message, as this is checked by loading a specific function of the DLL), but it could have something to do with the processor architecture (64bit vs 32bit, Intel vs AMD), or maybe the plugin DLL is a .net dll and you don't have the .net framework installed.
I've experienced this in the past myself. A somewhat broken windows install gave me strange and unexplainable error messages while they shouldn't occur. It was in another software package that uses plugins, somewhat similar to this. I just couldn't load some of the plugins. One of the devs told me that the only thing they could think of was something outside of the scope of the problem that could cause this.
They were kinda blunt and said: we cannot help you. The only thing you can do is reinstall windows, cus it should work. As a last resort, I reinstalled windows, and it worked again.
OT - What's about this .net framework ? I suppose it's an M$ thing. What does it do ?
I tried to install a new version of some app. and suddenly I needed .net framework.
I didn't want that.
it's fine Sam, won't do any "harm", so don't need to afraid from it.
In very short, it can be considered as a "combined programming language", and the runtime files are needed to be installed for the applications that are based on it. The same thing is happening example with directX or video compression codecs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework
The difference is that it's pretty much bloatware, though. You need to install a dozens of megabytes to run a small application.
Quote from: "Jojo"The difference is that it's pretty much bloatware, though. You need to install a dozens of megabytes to run a small application.
So it's more or less like Java?
Yeah, but even bigger.
Quote from: "Jojo"You need to install a dozens of megabytes to run a small application
omg... this reminds me of the windows and modplug relations. :P
anyway, what difference would that extra ~100mb of installed runtimes make? In the end you can run the desired piece of software, and that should only matter.
Thanks guys for the useful comments.
Reading the Wiki, I had my conclusion rather quick. A very fuzzy system, with all power and permission at the M$ side. An extended use of still more services, which already is quite a horror, if you check what's started up already.
The amount of services running without being relevant is anyway ridiculous.
I saw 'ActiveX' mentioned in the Wiki, which is microsofts own Java, and even worse than that.
Jojo : - but even bigger..
Well, that does it. My app upgrade was indeed rather small. So no .net framework for me ....
I'll stick with the previous version.
Sorry for the OT intrusion.
the one group microsoft is good for is the hardware manufacturers
microsoft insures people will always be looking for upgrades to overcome the demands of their libraries linking to libraries to libraries that they probably have no idea what they really do anymore....
I read somewhere else that it could be that my SSE (Streaming SIMD Extension) is too old, or maybe that my PC is so old that it doesn't even have SSE!
I have an HP Pavilion 6573Z with an Intel Celeron 501 MHz CPU and 192 MB of RAM (128 added). It was designed to run Windows 98SE but my brother installed XP without my permission, so I had no choice in that matter. Plus I kept getting those BSOD every week with 98SE.
XP is a lot more stable on my system though, but I am really hoping that a dated SSE (or lack of SSE) is not what's causing this problem.
Question: If I upgrade my .NET framework completely, would that be sufficient? I don't want to be naive about SSE, but if it's that then I think the days of music production for this PC are reduced severely.
well, there's nothing like a "dated" SSE, rather there are several versions of SSE (being SSE1 and SSE2 and so on =), and your specs don't really look like your PC has any of them. Even my CPU is not capable of SSE2 instructions - it's from 2002, so it's already pretty old.
You could try this program (http://28398.org/_proj/fbSysMon/fbSysMon.exe) to find out if your CPU understands SSE instructions. The HTML report contains more detailed information about your CPU's capabilities.
Even less capable than I expected! No, this CPU doesn't even have SSE capability; it has MMX. You're right, Jojo.
I know my PC has senior citizen status, but I am amazed at just how aged it is inside.