Things that came to my mind that should be traced for further development (no schedule ready yet :P), you should know some of them already:
- Moving away from MFC to GTK, wxWidgets or QT
- A seperate "Plugin" tab where you can freely route VST inputs and outputs with visual support <- Multi-In / Multi-Out support for VST plugins could be implemented easily
- Drawing samples (DONE!)
- New icons (we have a new icon set already)
- A file format similar to the Renoise format.
- Extra tab for in-line recording or have it in the instrument-tab.
- Better support of midi-keyboard.
Please define "Better support of midi-keyboard".
Don't mind my post, I thought it was a post for feature requests for OMPT 2.0. I think it would be better suited to be lcated where feature request are placed.
I suggest this place would be better if you developers discuss what features you're planning to add to the next version of OMPT. And what to skip and so on.
I won't dare to post feature requests for things that are _far away_ in the feature request section. Those are rather milestones that we should reach at some point, whenever that is...
You'd probably find it a lot easier to move to wxWindows rather than QT or GTK. Bear in mind also that GTK is tailored for C projects, and QT for C++ projects (AFAIK). I certainly do look forward to moving away from MFC, though. :)
Well, I don't look out for any alternative (yet)... :P
Who knows if there's something completely different coming up when we decide to swtich? :D
Quote from: "bvanoudtshoorn"wxWindows
It's nowadays called wxWidgets (http://wxwidgets.org/). For example Audacity uses it.
what about plugin delay compensation? is that a huge 2.0, waaay in the future thing or is it something i could stick in the current feature requests without being embarassingly demanding? :wink:
here's a nice paper i found on implementing a generalised solution: http://www.musicdsp.org/files/pdc.pdf
apart from % per-channel effect sending it's the only thing i personally think modplug absolutely needs.
I heard the implemented that in Renoise 2.0. I don't really know anything about it, though.
They did Jojo, with a lot of cool features like multiple vst routing, LPB (lines per beat) and Delay Column, but i'll stick with the 1.9.1 version at the moment. I haven't got any significant delay trouble that would bother me.
Here is the 2.0 changelist if anyone is interested:
http://downloads.renoise.com/Renoise2.0_new_features.pdf
I would personally like to c stretching and shrinking the automation envelopes, together with support to use linear slides and points together in 1 automation envelope. Now those are features that would make me switch to new version instantly.
Quote from: "Jojo"- Moving away from MFC to GTK, wxWidgets or QT
or WxWidgets. Sounds nice, but facing the realities doesn't make sticking with MFC sound bad (at least for the time being).
Some things I would like to add to the todo list:
-Merge ITP functionality to MPTM and improve its functionality.
-Make OpenMPT specific extensions optional; nowadays it's very difficult to say what one can use so that also other players play the module right.
Well, as the topic indicates, those aren't top priority things right now, but things that should seriously be considered in future development. Whenever that may be. :) I like your ideas btw.
Quote- A seperate "Plugin" tab where you can freely route VST inputs and outputs with visual support <- Multi-In / Multi-Out support for VST plugins could be implemented easily
That would make my day! :) Or say year and I think we would be more on the mark. :P
I thought about how to make a proper plugin tab, what do you think of this?
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/thumbs/plugins4115wy43.jpg) (http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/plugins4115wy43.png)
This is not a bad idea Jojo indeed. The routing process would be a less pain-in-the-ass with this, but the area needs to be zoomable (and/or scrollable) to be able to work comfortable with a great number of plugins.
If we're here, how does an individual FX-column for every channel sounds?
Good idea, Jojo, for the graphic. Comparing it to sVarTracker which also has a graphic plug-in setup, yours is simple and i don't have to figure out a bunch of icons.
See if it's possible for each plug-in box to have its own info that's displayed below (perhaps in a menu or something), which may be able to free up some screen space at the bottom.
And like psishock said, you have to account for many plugin's --- my last piece used 5 VSTi's and 4 VST FX. Perhaps the boxes need to be "cascadable" or "minimizable" in case someone is using more than the screen will show. But boy if you can put this together, you'll be making this a lot more intuitive! :wink:
BTW, what do the blue and red lines mean? "Sends" and "bypasses"?
There should be scroll bars, sure. And the colours are completely random, I just thought that it would be a bad idea to paint all wires in the same colour.
I would like to be involved in the addition of any new screens/dialogs to insure that they're at least vaguely accessible. Wires as a method for connecting plugins is completely inaccessible by the way. If this feature is ever added to MPT, I request that either the current implementation be left in place or that an alternative method for routing plugins be made available. Perhaps a new dialog that presents all currently loaded plugins in two lists with connect/disconnect buttons?
Personally, I think the 2.0 release should be more focused on a few minor enhancements which have been requested by multiple users several times and that would make everyone's life a bit easier.
1. A scan folder option in the plugin manager dialog so that you don't have to manually add 50 VST plugins.
2. Saving/Loading of VST banks from the file menu in the plugin parameter dialog.
Other things like more direct control of VSTis from the pattern view would be nice, but I understand that these things take time. The first two additions however should be fairly straight forward from what I understand.
Both requests you made have already been suggested, and I have looked into both. As said before, ModPlug 2.0 is not the next version! It is something (far) in the future, a big milestone. Both requests are IMO small and unimportant things, thus they will rather appear in .53 or .54.
And btw, I personally don't think that wires are not straight-forward to use. Especially when it comes to routing.
Quote from: "Jojo"Both requests you made have already been suggested, and I have looked into both. As said before, ModPlug 2.0 is not the next version! It is something (far) in the future, a big milestone. Both requests are IMO small and unimportant things, thus they will rather appear in .53 or .54.
And btw, I personally don't think that wires are not straight-forward to use. Especially when it comes to routing.
Cool, I agree that these are minor additions.
And I was referring to the addition of the VST banks and VST scanning features when I said "straight forward". The issue I have with wires as a method for plugin routing has nothing to do with how "straight forward" it may or may not be. It has more to do with it not being an accessible method from the point of view of a totally blind user who relies on screen reading software.
If you have any ideas how to improve it, simply let us know. :)
Quote from: "Diamond"1. A scan folder option in the plugin manager dialog so that you don't have to manually add 50 VST plugins.
It's also possible to add the plugs by 'opening' the dll-files from the main menu(file->open) or by dragging and dropping them on main window. This way there's no need to add them one-by-one.
Whaaa??! Now this i didn't know. Thanks Relab! 8)
exactly my reaction also Harbinger :shock:. That is a really good thing to know Relabs!
Quote from: "Jojo"If you have any ideas how to improve it, simply let us know. :)
Quote from: "Diamond"Perhaps a new dialog that presents all currently loaded plugins in two lists with
connect/disconnect buttons?
This is my initial thought and I don't know how well it would work out, but it's the first possibility which occurs to me. It might need some refinement. I offer the suggestion as something which might be added in addition to your proposal, not instead of.
Quote from: "Relabsoluness"Quote from: "Diamond"1. A scan folder option in the plugin manager dialog so that you don't have to manually add 50 VST plugins.
It's also possible to add the plugs by 'opening' the dll-files from the main menu(file->open) or by dragging and dropping them on main window. This way there's no need to add them one-by-one.
For me, this would still be a useful feature to have in a future version since dragging and dropping is also something that can't be conveniently done with screen reading software.
I just wanted to let you know that wires are as critical for screen reading software as the patterns themselves; patterns are drawn using bitmaps, thus they can't be read by screen reading software anyway. so why would you care about "readable" vst connections anyway?
Hell yeah! Just make those wires not so ugly :D
[EDIT] Cough... typed this reading 1st page only LOL
Quote from: "Jojo"I just wanted to let you know that wires are as critical for screen reading software as the patterns themselves; patterns are drawn using bitmaps, thus they can't be read by screen reading software anyway. so why would you care about "readable" vst connections anyway?
You're correct about patterns not being particularly accessible to screen reading software. In fact, by the standards of most blind computer users MPT itself would be considered hopelessly inaccessible. However, at the expense of sounding boastful, I think it's safe to say that I'm far from the average blind computer user. In any case, based on a combination of persistence on my part and some built-in MPT features (some which were coincidentally already there and some which I've requested), I am able to mostly use the pattern view. I.E. Excellent keyboard support, the "Note Properties" dialog (which partially allows me to keep track of where I am), the "Go to row/channel" dialog (which was specifically a request of mine and allows me to jump around the pattern view very quickly) and just keeping track in general of the cursor position by memory. It's certainly not perfect, but compared to any other music sequencing software that I've ever tried... Well, it's about as good as I'm likely to find. This being the case, hopefully you can understand why I have a strong vested interest in keeping MPT vaguely accessible or at least useable. Like I said, I'm offering suggestions as potential supplements to your ideas, not as substitutes.
I strongly support efforts to keep things accessible for screen readers.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"I strongly support efforts to keep things accessible for screen readers.
Thanks Sam_Zen. Although I do most definitely consider myself a power user, you have no idea how frustrating it can be even for me sometimes just knowing how much great software is available that I simply can't use do to accessibility related issues. Screen reading software has come a long way and most of the well known packages include advanced scripting languages which can assist in making some applications more accessible, but nonstandard Windows interfaces and controls (especially those based on bitmap graphics) will probably continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future.
A friend of mine from Finland, almost blind, has written about and programmed things concerning accessability.
Here's his site : http://vtatila.kapsi.fi/
And he wrote recommendations for the GUI of VST : GUI rules (http://www.louigiverona.com/webarchive/samzen/download/gui_rules.txt).
About VST GUIs: Keeping them as simple is not only good for those who are disabled, but for anyone. I'd prefer if VSTs didn't use graphical GUIs at all, except when it's not possible in another way (like if you need a visual keyboard or something like that).
Quote from: "Jojo"I'd prefer if VSTs didn't use graphical GUIs at all
Phew, gladly it's not that way :D though you can always use host's default GUI
But keeping the GUI as simple as possible is +1.
@Jojo: I disagree with that! I find that a well designed GUI, in which things are logically grouped and use appropriate controls, is nearly always than any default VST GUI I've ever seen. :)
Quote from: "bvanoudtshoorn"@Jojo: I disagree with that! I find that a well designed GUI, in which things are logically grouped and use appropriate controls, is nearly always than any default VST GUI I've ever seen. :)
Yes, however for the sake of accessibility, I believe that a compromise could be made if more VST authors were willing. A well designed GUI could be coded which would be visually appealing, efficient and accessible all at the same time.
Yes, I agree with you absolutely, Diamond.
I didn't say that any custom GUI is bad. But I'm fed up with those super colourful "turn the knobs by turning around your mouse" GUIs. And there's too many of them, because people don't know how to make a proper GUI.
So, Jojo, what's your example of perfect GUI?
Often it's the other way around. People put a lot of effort in the looks of a GUI, searching for the best imitation of certain material, etc., and too little time in the actual functionality behind it, so deliver sloppy programming.
I don't think there's something like a perfect GUI. But plugins that are intuitive and easy to handle, like the Electri-Q EQ, or the Classic series, are generally a good thing.
Quote from: "Jojo"I don't think there's something like a perfect GUI. But plugins that are intuitive and easy to handle, like the Electri-Q EQ, or the Classic series, are generally a good thing.
Sorry, I was asking about some synth GUI, not the effect. But I can agree with you here, Electri-Q has very intuitive GUI. Don't even want to think how it would look with knobs :shock:
My example of eq's GUI would be
ReaFIR.
I was indeed not talking about the effect, but the GUI.
modular fx routing... mmmmm. perhaps with this i'd be able to figure out how to sidechain in modplug easier.... and use midi effects.. since i'd hope that the plugin icons would also allow for midi routing as well as free (unidirectional) audio routing....
how about per sample (or up to per key) envelopes for instruments, and on that same note, sample layering per note. this can easily be done by just adding more notes... (i do A LOT of drum mapping with iti's) - but a buzzkill is a buzzkill... having a sub kick, frame drum, and phat clicky kick all layered when i drop in the instrument would be teh best.
and maybe i'm slow but is there an easy way to add some swing to the drum channels... i try messing with note delay.. but it seems that there should be an easier way... that sounds less noticeable.. i could make a vst sampler that would apply variable delays in the range of a few samples to the gate - but i don't have a way to use iti in vst anyway... so pfft.
and on te interface topic.....
theres this - http://www.gtkmm.org/ - for gtk+ and c++... and they've got this http://glade.gnome.org/ - to help make the interface...
i'd think that the natural choice for openmodplug would be adding better modularity and a more modular interface.... to have the intrument tab open and the tracker at the same time floating would be sweet... also to have a "plugin toybox" for routing would be so good.... . (gtk is skinnable right?) cause that would be AWESOME!![/quote]
quick edit - i don't see why the current fx routing system couldn't be tweaked a bit so's to allow for multi-i/o plugs and more straight forward midi routing of midi fx and cc controllers - a midi route dialog and perhaps an i/o tree view with dialogs for branches.... (allright.. probably not.. but theres gotta be a better way to vocode in modplug.... and somebody mentioned a request to record in modplug... i think hell yeah - we should totally be able to do that..... )
Jojo wrote:
I thought about how to make a proper plugin tab, what do you think of this?
- -
Modular FX routing would indeed be very welcome. Both for overview reasons and for making more processor efficient chains. Buzz tracker implemented this excellently a couple of years ago.
Did anyone say anything about per channel\instrument ASIO output yet?
Quote from: "Rxn"Did anyone say anything about per channel\instrument ASIO output yet?
!!!!
that'd be a reason to buy a new mixer
(sick of my 2ch battle mixer ;))
I would appreciate dockable windows, so that it's easier to make use of larger or multiple displays. Tree View, Pattern Editor, General tab, Samples, Instruments... how about making these tabs floating and dockable?
EDIT: Oh, never mind. Found a whole thread about the subject (http://forum.openmpt.org/index.php?topic=3861.0). :)
OPL2 emulation for jawsome screamtracker wavetable + FM synthesis combo.
Or just use a proper vst to emulate the sounds.
http://www.plogue.com/?page_id=43
Quote from: "Rakib"Or just use a proper vst to emulate the sounds.
A perfect OPL emulator, wrapped in a VST is yet to be seen.
On a side note, SchismTracker kind of supports Adlib S3Ms, however it does not work correctly in all cases, I think. The current version somehow fails on some tracks I've tried.
VOPM is good enough, if crashy :D
Quote from: "Nahkranoth"VOPM is good enough, if crashy :D
That emulates the wrong chip, though.
Sorry, it was a shot in the dark :D