I recently read that tracker musicians do not get much respect from "proper" musicians. Why is this?
I'd be very interested to know where you read that. I'd also be interested in knowing what the definition of a proper musician is since "trackers" dont fall into that category.
Answers to questions KrazyKatz pointed out would indeed be interesting.
Quote from: "Violette"I recently read that tracker musicians do not get much respect from "proper" musicians. Why is this?
I assume it's because they assume trackers didn't have to learn an instrument or anything, they just point and click their way to music. But the way I see it, singers don't always learn an instrument, they just use a natural talent, like most trackers. And I've noticed a lot of trackers know how to play an instrument or 2 or 3. I know the drums, keyboard, and a little bass myself.
I think it could be that they don't really understand what tracking is, and also that there is a lot of really bad tracked music. ;)
KrazyKatz is right, "trackers" dont fall into that category. They are composers, not musicians.
The program or the pc isn't just playing another instrument, you're dealing with a mix of different instruments simultaneously, to make it work like a band or an orchestra. You have to make a construction, not a performance.
So I don't care about that respect existing or not, because the comparison is non-relevant.
Because of the excellent improvements in controlling the realtime performance of a compo, I did some sessions with friends, playing other instruments, while I used OMPT on a laptop with a chosen module.
In this perspective you could say, that the composer has an extra option to act as a "tracker musician".
Then the complete module is your instrument to play with. You can control the patternloops, the patternorder, skip patterns, mute channels, add realtime an extra sound via the keyboard of a selected sample during play, etc.
Only then, I'm a musician among musicians.
I've learned to play a lot of acoustic instruments a bit, enough to produce a useful sound- or sequence-sample.
i think this was the case a few years ago when trackers were lower quality and associated, if anything, with the slightly poor pop-song mod/it files that were so common. nowdays with trackers having everything you need from a music package and audio quality to match the best and with people like venetian snares famously using trackers to make incredibly complex beautiful music then i think the image is totally on the way up.
Yes, perhaps this is not the case anymore, like Anboi mentioned.
I read that statement in a manual I printed out I don't know when ('97?)
Didn't mean to offend anyone :-)
QuoteKrazyKatz is right, "trackers" dont fall into that category. They are composers, not musicians.
Certainly not! Composers are every bit musicians. Even check out the definition of musician.
I think that trackers arent regarded as highly is primarily since its a cheap if not an outright free enterprise. As a result its hard to find High quality samples ( I have to convert sample libraries to IT. ), and every Joe has a go which results in tons of lousy pieces for every good one.
Also since its not funded, the progress of the program is somewhat slow.
I reckon that Modplug Tracker could command a price of about at least $400.
Quote from: "KrazyKatz"I reckon that Modplug Tracker could command a price of about at least $400.
It's not that I don't love MPT in an unhealthy unnatural way, and it's not that I don't respect the work Olivier, Rewbs, Reabsoluness and Ericus have put in, but 40$ would sound more reasonable.
Given there is such a division between 'proper' musicians and tracker musicians; 'what if' there is a person who qualifies for both 'titles'?
I mean; is there really a division at all? Well, perhaps there is, but some might fit in both lairs.
The only reason why a Tracker wouldn't be conciddered pro, is the fact that it doesn't cost money.
I mean: if its free, it can't be good right? lol, well atleast thats what they think. They'll eagerlly buy renoise and think: see, this sucks, than downloading modplug for free, and actually discover how easy it is to track.
I'm not saying renoise is bad, but its interface makes it look too difficult to learn.
Quote from: "LPChip"se is bad, but its interface makes it look too difficult to learn.
:shock:
Offtopic:
why?
Quote from: "cyperkid"Quote from: "LPChip"se is bad, but its interface makes it look too difficult to learn.
:shock:
Offtopic: why?
C'mon... Just take a look on a screenshot of renoise, and pretend you don't know what a tracker is... Doesn't it look very unusual?
MODPlug Tracker is so different because of its easy interface. You look at it and think: Oh, I can do this...
You look at Renoise, and you think: So many buttons to get into menu's... So confusing...
I've always found Renoise's interface completely overwhelming.
I always found it, also as with fast tracker, quite hard to look through. All these buttons that look alike. Each time you need to be in one of these menu's, you start looking. In MPT you find it at the first search.
I am both a classical composer AND a sequencer AND a tracker -- i even went to the University of Minnesota to become a symphony conductor (unfortunately had some real-life issues). I have seen it from all sides so if you will indulge me...
I would like to echo most of SamZen's comments and conclusions, but i shall stick to the point of your question: Respectability as any kind of artist is given by the community and handed down by your colleagues. What that means is, the consumers of your artwork will decide as a whole whether you are indeed an artist, if not now, then perhaps posthumously after your influence or innovation has been displayed. However, your colleagues also afford you a different kind of respect, and unfortunately, i've found, that means there is an unspoken "pecking order." And here it is:
1. Classically-trained composers
2. Classically-trained performers (cellists, flautists, etc.)
3. Hobbyist performers (rock musicians, studio artists, etc.)
4. Hobbyist composers (most pop songwriters)
5. Sequencers
6. Trackers
7. Club DJs/mixers
Now i had to stretch the contexts of these adjectives a bit so you understand what kind of musicians i'm talking about. To translate the list, this means the conductor/composer John Williams would "look down on" the world famous cellist Yo-Yo Ma, who would feel superior to Bono, who would feel superior to songwriter Carole King, who would feel superior to Jan Hammer, who would feel superior to, say, our own Sam_Zen, who would feel he was above your average club DJ. (Sorry to use you as an example, Sammy, i know so few trackers :wink:.)
Most of this order of respectability is based on fame, influence (both of these are based on your connections -- "who you know"), skill, and raw talent, but not necessarily any particular order. It seems to me formed alot by pop culture, but also by innovation. And i'm sure many of you would argue that marketing is also a huge factor.
The best way to bump yourself up this list, it seems, is to create something that everyone likes and wants more of, whether you went to school for it or you just have raw talent. Respect is gained by your colleagues, i think, by your influence either on pop culture or on your colleagues.
Now, from my own personal POV, i find that one of the disadvantages of tracking (and sequencing) software is that it allows people with no talent to throw things together and, voila, we have another musician wannabe who thinks he's the next Mozart. Then with all these unclever artists throwing more unclever noise onto the pile of consumable data out there, it's hard to find the real jewels hidden in the garbage. I believe that this is also at the heart of why classically-trained musicians look down on digital musicians.
However, i also love tracking and sequencing, and i've noticed that the flip side of that argument is that, while, yes, alot of uninspired sound gets passed off as "music," these easily-accessible applications (like MPT) allow a hidden musician to bloom, and every once in a while a new artist finds that he has a real talent and liking for creating and composing. And so he is given the tools to touch and influence those who he may come in contact with, even if it's only a few other musicians. A perfect example is Quincy Jones, who i believe was already a classically-trained Jazz musician and composer. The influence of popular music, from R&B to Hiphop, is so pervasive in his compositions that his staying power and influence among younger musicians is undeniable. And those same pop influences came from the studios of sequencers (which he helped spawn BTW) and now trackers. (Trackers are a fairly new breed of musician, probably the newest.)
Plus, trackers are probably tracking because they lack the resources to get done what they really want to do, or maybe they're experimenting to see if they even have any talent or desire for this kind of artistry.
The main point is, if it's obvious you THINK about what you put together, most of your colleagues will see this, and they will give you your props for your skill and/or talent.
Anyone have anything to add?
OMPT is priceless. And there are a growing number of free, or open source apps nowadays with high quality.
anboi has a point. A decade ago the majority of tracker-modules on the web was very mediocre. Mostly attempts to imitate some popular hit indeed. So that's maybe still the reason for this imago of trackers.
Then, the majority were amateurs, now, the majority is more professional I guess.
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
Then, the majority were amateurs, now, the majority is more professional I guess.
I fully agree. I think there are trackers that are more proffessional than most commercial artists. It seems that the trackers standard was raised above of the commercial artists. True there are better commercial artists, but I hear so many "easy" songs coming out that I think: damn, this song sucks, how did they got to make it? I can do better :nuts:
I disagree with that. Perhaps trackers in general are more experienced these days, but that's because of the lack of newbies.