The Sound engineering part of composing is not my forte.
I'd like to know any rules of thumb with regard to Panning, volumes and equalizers.
I primarily compose for orchestra.
Thanks.
If you are using MPT to create orchestral compositions, you may find this helpful. It shows the proper panning for each instrument of an orchestra:
(http://download.modplug.com/orchestra_panning.jpg)
Also, you can see if any of this is of use:
http://www.modplug.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Terms=Mastering+Tips
Bloody hell! Thats more than I bargained for... Thanks Mister X..
Keep those tips coming gents.
Quote from: "KrazyKatz"Bloody hell! Thats more than I bargained for... Thanks Mister X..
You're welcome. I have that printed out and taped to my studio system. ;)
For EQing, I learned that the basedrum usually has the lowest eq setting. And in most occasions, it sounds best if you put a peak at 100hz. Sometimes I enhance the lower sections like 30~70 a little bit, but a big peak at 100 seems to work quite well.
Snaredrums cover a big range from 200 to 800 and hihats around 1k to 2k.
I also put bass between 150 and 300, but its a matter of exploration.
Bloody hell misterX, that was one hell of an inspiring picture you had there, made me think of mixing all music types that way, first drawing yourelf a nice picture of space.
Anyway the-I-Didnt-counf-How-Many comendments:
Use compressors to lower your peaks for a more HeavyVolume overall.. properly set your EQ so that certain "unwanted" freq won`t bother their "wanted" peers [creating a damn peak], avoid playing a kick with a bass [you could compress them, ofcourse, but personaly I never found that sound too much lively],also makes some interesting basses as a result. What else... oh yea, use headphones for the stereo mix and monitors for the general mix, as I always found the headphones much more stereo like, its a far sharper image...try defining your instruments frequencies before creating the track[if you`re one of those who are able to first imagine then create, I know I`m not one :P ]
Well, its all I can say and may be some of it is wrong, but that`s what I learned from experience. It then comes down to quite a lot of technical knowledge to acheive a satisfying result and a lot of patience, practice, fun, disapointment and anger, all who give us the right to call ourselves musicians in the 21st century.
Now you can ask if I`m stoned... :P
I never mastered an orchestral piece and I think orchestral pieces should not have any mastering except for some slight eqing maybe. Orchestra has a full sound by itself (when the piece is arranged correctly of course!).
Since I don't do orchestrals I can only give som hints on how I do mastering on pop/rock songs which I mostly do. For those I use compressors (simple or multiband). But compressors destroy dynamics which is crucial in orchestra sound which is why I don't recommend mastering orchestral piece.
Quote from: "XAVT"
Now you can ask if I`m stoned... :P
Are you rocked? :nuts:
Here's some useful information on EQing:
Kick Drum:
Besides the usual cuts in the 200Hz to 400 area, some tighter Q cuts at 160Hz, 800Hz and 1.3k may help. The point of these cuts makes for space for the fundamental tones of a bass guitar or stand up. I have also found a high pass filter at 50Hz will help tighten up the kick along with giving your compressor a signal it can deal with musically. 5K to 7K for snap.
Snare Drum:
The snare drum is an instrument that can really be clouded by having too much low end. Frequencies under about 150Hz are really un-usable for modern mixing styles. I would suggest a high pass filter in this case. Most snares are out front enough so a few cuts might be all that is needed. I like to start with 400Hz, 800Hz, and some 1.3K. This are just frequencies to play with. Doesn't mean you will use all. If the snare is too transparent in the mix but I like the level it is at, a cut at 5K can give it a little more distance and that might mean a little boost at 10K to brighten it up.
High Hats:
High hats have very little low end information. I high pass at 200Hz can clean up a lot of un-usable mud in regards to mic bleed. The mid tones are the most important to a high hat. This will mean the 400Hz to 1K area but I've found the 600Hz to 800Hz area to be the most effective. To brighten up high hats, a shelving filter at 12.5K does nicely.
Toms and Floor Toms:
Again, the focus here is control. Most toms could use a cut in the 300Hz to 800Hz area. And there is nothing real usable under 100Hz for a tom... unless you are going for a special effect. Too much low end cloud up harmonics and the natural tones of the instrument. Think color not big low end.
Over Heads:
In my opinion, drum over heads are the most important mics on a drum kit. They are the ones that really define the sound of the drums. That also give the kit some ambience and space. These mics usually need a cut in the 400Hz area and can use a good rolling off at about 150Hz. Again, they are not used for power.... these mics 'are' the color of your drum sound. Roll off anything that will mask harmonic content or make your drums sound dull. Cuts at 800Hz can bring more focus to these mics and a little boost of a shelving filter at 12.5K can bring some air to the tones as well.
Bass Guitar:
Bass guitar puts out all the frequencies that you really don't want on every other instrument. The clarity of bass is defined a lot at 800Hz. Too much low end can mask the clarity of a bass line. I've heard other say that the best way to shape the bass tone is to roll off everything below 150Hz, mold the mids into the tone you are looking for, then slowly roll the low end back in until the power and body is there you are looking for. If the bass isn't defined enough, there is probably too much low end and not enough mid range clarity. Think of sounds in a linear fashion, like on a graph. If there is too much bass and no clarity, you would see a bump in the low end masking the top end. The use of EQ can fix those abnormalities.
Guitar/piano/ etc.:
These instruments all have fundamentals in the mid range. Rolling off low end that is not needed or usable is a good idea. Even if you feel you can't really hear the low end, it still is doing something to the mix. Low end on these instruments give what I call support. The tone is in the mids. 400Hz and 800Hz are usually a point of interest as are the upper mids or 1K to 5K. Anything above that just adds brightness. Remember to look at perspective though. Is a kick brighter than a vocal? Is a piano brighter than a vocal? Is a cymbal brighter than a vocal?
And here's another reference that I have:
(http://www.dak.com/reviews/ImagesR/2024_FreqGraph.gif)
Quote from: "LPChip"Quote from: "XAVT"
Now you can ask if I`m stoned... :P
Are you rocked? :nuts:
Well, I was at the time .... and come to think of it... I am now > : )
Quote from: "LPChip"
Snaredrums cover a big range from 200 to 800 and hihats around 1k to 2k.
Y`know chip... I think you should have a look at the picture located two posts above me ;)
Anyway, why not make it sticky?
Quote from: "XAVT"Quote from: "LPChip"
Snaredrums cover a big range from 200 to 800 and hihats around 1k to 2k.
Y`know chip... I think you should have a look at the picture located two posts above me ;)
Anyway, why not make it sticky?
I learned otherwise, but each person experiences something differently than others. In any case, its always up to the person to decide whats best.
And considder this topic stickied :)
Quote from: "mikosoft"I never mastered an orchestral piece and I think orchestral pieces should not have any mastering except for some slight eqing maybe. Orchestra has a full sound by itself (when the piece is arranged correctly of course!).
This is true - some EQing based on the Approximate Frequency Ranges of each instrument combined with the panning will do wonders. Another thing to achieve more "realism" is to apply slight reverbs to the instruments that are in the back of the Orchestra.
Mixing is not mastering and mastering is not mixing. ::)
Some of you are interchanging two very different processes. Mastering is not the process of mixing your instruments together, panning them, EQ'ing them, compressing them, etc. mikosoft was really the only one who associated it with the right process of effecting the master output, so either this topic has become completely ambigious, or some of you don't realise the difference between mixing and mastering. Seeing the way this topic is going, it should be renamed to "Mixing Tips" to avoid further confusion.
So, is it mixing tips you want, or mastering tips?
Quote from: "Atlantis"Mixing is not mastering and mastering is not mixing. ::)
Some of you are interchanging two very different processes. Mastering is not the process of mixing your instruments together, panning them, EQ'ing them, compressing them, etc. mikosoft was really the only one who associated it with the right process of effecting the master output, so either this topic has become completely ambigious, or some of you don't realise the difference between mixing and mastering. Seeing the way this topic is going, it should be renamed to "Mixing Tips" to avoid further confusion.
So, is it mixing tips you want, or mastering tips?
Good observation. Based on his opening post, I'd say he's after mixing. I'll edit the topic to mixing tips.
I don't know is this mastering or mixing issue(or something different), but a thing that has been a quite big problem for me when tracking is the significant difference in the way the mod sounds when listened with headphones or with speakers. It is of course natural that the way some tune sounds is dependent on various things including the speakers and its settings, but I can't help wondering that does the difference have to be so dramatic: often a mod that sounds ok with headphones, with which I usually work with, then sounds almost horrible with speakers. I think this is largely due to 'lost volume balance'(various instruments are too loud/quiet).
Some basic 'what's going on'-description about the matter might help a lot.
This is WAY over this country girls head! :? But strange enough, I do sorta understand it. :lol:
The thing I mentioned in my previous post has really been a problem for me; no one really has something to say about it? ::)
when mixing/mastering then the advice often given is to try it on lots of different systems and if it sounds good on all then it should be fine. if it doesn't then you are probably doing something slightly wrong, but not necessarily:
different monitoring setups will have different frequency peaks and troughs (and the room you are in will have some effect too as some frequencies will bounce back and multiply, some will cancel) this tends to lead you to inappropriately boost some parts or attenuate others. to get the best possible sound you want your setup with as little reverb from the room as possible (so a largish room with some sound dampening of some sort), good speaker positioning to avoid phase cancellation and a very flat frequency response from both your amp and speakers.
this is hard to achieve but its still possible to do a very acceptable job with non-optimal gear by simply listening to a huge amount of the very best produced music you have on your normal setup and making it sound close to that in terms of balancing. there will still probably be issues when then trying it on headphones so re-tweak slightly to fit them and try again on the main setup. its hard to describe this stuff, but you should sort of 'know' when you've got it good on both and you can assume that it should then sound good on most other systems too, the more you use the better you can get it but you need to know all of the systems well through listening to lots of your favourite well produced albums as a reference.
problems with the mixing almost always come to the fore when listening on different gear and as long as you know its not the setup thats at fault (because your favourite records sound bad in the same ways) then you can fix it and improve the mixing of your track.
hope that is clear-ish and helps!
Thanks anboi. It was nice to have some information about this.
A technical aspect about mixing which has to be taken into account : Mixing sounds on a digital level is quite different from analog mixing, because, without corrections, it means a mathematical addition of the level values of each track-point. So a mixdown of two tracks, each normalized to the max, will generate distortions in the result.
If anyone wants mixing/mastering advice, just contact me via IM. Topic closed. :lol: