I can't understand how to do note picking in the row.
I need to hear all other instruments in the row from other tracks when i test note or instrument, listening how it sounds in the pattern together with other instruments.
Usually it is controlled by solo/mute channels, like in old trackers.
But how to do the same in modern trackers?
How to do that in MPT?
Just a wild guess as I don't entirely understand your question: You might want to try the "play row" command (5th icon in the pattern toolbar, and there might be shortcut bound to it, depending on the keymap you use).
Yes it is almost what i need.
But i need not just to play row.
I need to play it when i press key and play/insert note into pattern.
It may happen with or without shift to next row.
If with - i either play next note or silence.
If without - i just test note sounding together with other notes in the row.
It is like analysing song and modifying it with total speed and sounding control.
Also having a little difficulty understanding.
In the "Patterns" menu, try clicking on the "Channels" (Channel 1 , Channel 2 etc..). This mutes them.
You can also right click on them and solo a channel. There are a few options to choose from.
So first use the "Play row" option Jojo mentioned, then mute and un-mute the channels you want.
Hope this helps and welcome to the Forum :).
Quote from: "KrazyKatz"Also having a little difficulty understanding.
In the "Patterns" menu, try clicking on the "Channels" (Channel 1 , Channel 2 etc..). This mutes them.
You can also right click on them and solo a channel. There are a few options to choose from.
So first use the "Play row" option Jojo mentioned, then mute and un-mute the channels you want.
Hope this helps and welcome to the Forum :).
No, this is not what i want.
I need to
hear all notes int the row it
when i press key and insert note into pattern.
In other words i need to hear what it will be
when i write it,
not after.
Can you give me an example of an "old" tracker that did this? I can't think of any at the moment. You could try to use "Play row" and then start adding notes to the row.
Quote from: "Jojo"You could try to use "Play row" and then start adding notes to the row.
But not at the same time. Right?
QuoteCan you give me an example of an "old" tracker that did this? I can't think of any at the moment.
Unfortunatelly only tracker that could do that is fasttrasker 2.0 for dos.
And ACM(ASM) Tracker and FT_1.0 for ZX-Spectrum 256.
I been making music by trackers 10 years ago.
There was a old computer ZX-Spectrum 128 (ZX-Scorpion 256) with sound
coprocessor.
And there were 2 trackers.
One is ASM tracker, written by professional programmers. This one had no
required features.
I hacked into codes and inserted pieces of code into free space of memory.
This is how it begun to have superconvenient features.
The other one was FT_1.0 (something like fasttracker, but different).
It was made by folks - musicians, so it had some (not all) features like I was
looking for in all other trackers.
Due to very limited sound of ZX-Spectrum, I decided to buy PC.
But when I examined bunch of PC trackers - what a disaster - they did not have
these features.
I had written about dozen incomplete compositions, and leaved tracker scene.
Just because all the software was madly inconvenient.
ZX-Spectrum music is called 8-bit modern music.
Because not only computing power matters, but firstly convenience of instrument.
I think I get what he wants.
When inserting a note in a row, it activates the "play row" option playing the entire row including the note that is placed.
I don't know of any tracker that does this. Sounds like a feature request for OMPT.
Quote from: "KrazyKatz"I think I get what he wants.
When inserting a note in a row, it activates the "play row" option playing the entire row including the note that is placed.
Yes, it is now understood.
Quote
I don't know of any tracker that does this. Sounds like a feature request for OMPT.
Let it be so.Now just a little left to go - explain programmers what is needed. :)
Quote from: "vicktech"Quote from: "Jojo"You could try to use "Play row" and then start adding notes to the row.
But not at the same time. Right?
Well, that depends on your definition of "at the same time". :) You can first hit "play row", go up one row and then enter note data and it will still play. Not very convenient of course, but it does the job for now.
Quote from: "Jojo"
Well, that depends on your definition of "at the same time". :) You can first hit "play row", go up one row and then enter note data and it will still play. Not very convenient of course, but it does the job for now.
No, no, no, no, no. :)
It does job
somehow, the job is to write music, and it must be done well. Besides it does the job only for one row, but what really needed is
analysing song and modifying it with total speed and sounding control.It means seamlesly, without "one step forth two steps back", or unnecesarily jumping forth and back anyway.
You can call it WYHIWYG - What You Hear Is What You Get
Don't forget, you can play the pattern, and while it plays enter notes.
Its not the same as having a short clip hearing everything that goes on at that moment when you enter a note though.
If you really want to continuously hear those notes, you can use the Cxx jump to row effect to make it jump to the same row every time.
A quick way to be able to work with this would be to go to an empty channel, select the first row, and type in C00. Go to the bottom row, and set Cxx where xx is the same as the row number (Default 63), except you need to convert this to a hexadecimal number (double click the effect and use the slider to set the value to 63, and it will enter a hexadecimal number for you)
Select the entire channel, and rightclick->interpolate effect. This should get you a C00, C01, C02... etc. Now go to the row you want to enter a note, and press play from row. It should now loop only that row and you can hear what happens with your note.
Do note that if you have an instrument that has continue or fade in its New Note Action (instrument tab) it will quickly become a mess in terms of sound. To counteract, you can slow down the song by setting a speed of 16 or higher. (the higher the slower)
Nice workaround LP, but I do think his idea has merit. Might be worth checking out those older trackers and getting a feature request opened.
Quote from: "LPChip"Don't forget, you can play the pattern, and while it plays enter notes.
I know it. Thanks for advice.
But it is not what is needed, it is too complicated and it does not give precise real time control over speed+sounding and pattern as result.
Let's say tracker needs just a little improvement.
Just about 100 lines of code.
You will see how simple and convenient it is when you will work with it.
Need advice - I'm ready to help.
Actually:
I could not understand how to program on PC.
I needed only realtime system, not other.
I even wanted to architect my own computer for making music :)
Filters, plugins, effects - it is all very nice.
But what is needed anyway - a few convenient features.
I may still have vision of what convenient tracker should be.
If you need advice, or suggestions in tracker creation - ask me.
Dont want it to appear that all my mental constructing was in vain.
And hope I did not forget all the thing after all this time.
If you want I can tell you how to make most superior tracker on this Earth ;)I dug into deep of drums, I flew into abyss of frequencies.
For the future I have ultimate concept of new tracker, the whole universe will shudder from. :twisted:
So how it goes?
Any nightly builds with implementation?
We have a progressing topic at renoise forum.
I tried something and added a new option to play the whole row when entering notes. It can be enabled from the setup (second checkbox in the "Options" box). I guess it might be appropriate to add a keyboard shortcut for this as well?
Try-out build: http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe
Quote from: "Jojo"I tried something and added a new option to play the whole row when entering notes. It can be enabled from the setup (second checkbox in the "Options" box). I guess it might be appropriate to add a keyboard shortcut for this as well?
Try-out build: http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe
may be,
but "play new notes while recording" doesnt work when using our new row-play technique.
New note is played with row when row-spacing=0.
when more than 0 it doesnt work... it seems that something is missing in the code?
uh, "Play row while recording" is just an extension to "Play new notes while recording", i.e. you can just either play the whole row OR just the note. How would you have imagined it to work?
Quote from: "Jojo"uh, "Play row while recording" is just an extension to "Play new notes while recording", i.e. you can just either play the whole row OR just the note. How would you have imagined it to work?
So new notes are not playing while recording now....
row is playing but without new notes.
that is strange.
When row-spacing = 0 everithing works as intended.
I'll try to make video.
Oops, when using row spacing, the wrong row is played. I will fix that soon-ish.
how it goes?
Any fixed releases?
Quote from: "vicktech"how it goes?
Any fixed releases?
Sorry, we're / I'm not that fast. There's a more or less serious issue which prevents an easy fix. I have no idea when this will be resolved, but it could take a few more days, unless I actually find the source of the problem.
I've put up a tentative fix (same URL for the exe file), which should allow to use the new mode with row spacing enabled. I had to make some changes to the player core, so if the new version shows buggy behaviour when the pattern "step" mode is enabled, let me know.
Congratulations! It works!
I haven't found any bugs yet.
Thank you!
I'm expecting that changing behavior further, will require digging the core.
For example when record is off and song is playing or stopped, user still wishes to accompany from keyboard - just to examine how it will sound.
By pressing special key song should play from cursor until key is released. Better if it will be Enter key.
Ctrl+G = Grab parameters from position.
Instrument, volume, image, and effect should be input from one key press. - that can be used to play drums or experiment with pattern. Anyway it is simpler and faster.
There should be set of editable masks to grab or overwrite current position under cursor.
Also should be channels grouping and editable "half-mute" for groups of channels.
Many other enhancements will make life easier (apparently not for programmer ::) ).
Quote from: "vicktech"I'm expecting that changing behavior further, will require digging the core.
For example when record is off and song is playing or stopped, user still wishes to accompany from keyboard - just to examine how it will sound.
That is actually supposed to be possible and got broken when I implemented your request.
A fixed version is up where playing notes with record disabled should be possible again...
there's still some oddities.
When rec is off and song plays, space bar pressing erases position under cursor.
Quote from: "vicktech"there's still some oddities.
Please, open a bug report thread in the appropriate forum for things like this. It's way easier for us to keep track of bugs that way. Actually I should just ignore this post, but since it's definitely a bug (cursor paste is not supposed to work when record is disabled of course), i'll make an excpetion. :P
Input methods.
Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS9393ih0EM
Playing drums
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mYoi3b0cw
Thanks for the function, found it quite interesting.
Quote from: "Rakib"Thanks for the function, found it quite interesting.
You can have more.
Above is only small demonstration of what should it be ideally.
And I believe it should the way it once was:
When you press key and insert a note, the whole row's content is played by activating play routine.
If you release key before quant is played, autoscroll happens to the next row, according to the row-step.
If you continue to hold key, play rotinue is continued, and you hear all notes consequently.
When you release key, the note-mute can be inserted either automaticly or by key.
When you release key, play routine is stopped and program waits for your next action.
If you insert one note after another - one note can automaticly mute previous note.
You can insert silence as well, for seamless going through pattern.
Silence is sound too. When musician gets it - he(or she) is one step closer to the professional.
This is how it supposed to work.
This approach combines launching of many routines simultaneously and stopping them also,
and my require sophisticated programming methods.
There can be idea of making track-play like midi sequencing, when overlapping notes do not mute each other.
Also speed and sounding control with supporting slowing sound effects, and sound generally, without changing frequency, is too advanced for current hardware and software customs.
What we try to achieve is ease of writing music.
And it is very good, especially for tracker music, because for drums+solo+bass pattern it is exactly what needed.
There are two common ways of writting music: experimenting with pattern, and "from mind to pattern" way.
In both of them requested feature will be the most natural and thus helpful as it just always musted be.
There also are many reality shifting ideas I have, but they require specially designed hardware, computers, and totally new way of programming.
one more thing I should notice:
Instrument number should be inputing by pressing one key instead of two, and autoscroll supported by exactly the same way as in our idea for notes.
Same for all other parameters.
By doing that one can play very atomic jungle just by intellectually clicking on his keyboard, or invoke interesting effects by filling other parameters.
Instruments can be represented by hex number, but even better if it is done by letters like 0123456789ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO...
One key - One symbol - One quant of sound = closer to WhatYouHearIsWhatYouGet.