I've been working on game projects that have multiple sub-tunes, and some of the sub-tunes use a bit more exotic beats, like 3/4 while others are in 4/4. But the time signature -derived row highlight is forced throughout the project file. It can be changed to make sub-tune authoring easier, but it's a bit of a chore to switch forth and back.
Would it be technically possible to make it so that the user can specify the time signature per pattern? It could be put behind an "Enable" checkbox, so that by default the patterns use the project's default time signature, but some patterns could use a different one.
If a pattern with a custom time signature is Duplicated, the time signature property would naturally also duplicate.
Technically it would sure be possible, but at the moment I cannot quite estimate how much work it would be. Sounds like an exciting feature worth looking into, though.
i would be very interested in this feature as well!
the thing is, i would want some way of changing the hilighting partway through the song, not just for each subtune. not really sure how that would work tho, i imagine it would be rather more difficult... maybe some way of doing it on a per-pattern basis through the pattern properties dialog? or maybe another special separator pattern (like the '+++' patterns) that would set the time signature for the patterns after it?
Quote from: "Snu"maybe some way of doing it on a per-pattern basis through the pattern properties dialog?
That's how I imagined it to work at least.
oh wow, quick reply, even before i edited the post!
good to know, just wanted to make sure.
This is working better than expected... The engine was already well prepared for such a feature.
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/patternsignature1320on21.png)
Exactly what I need too ! :D
Sounds good! I've been hankering after this feature for a while!
(And yes, I am still alive, my rather extended silence notwithstanding. :))
Hmm.. I'm not quite sure what to do with that Rows per Beat edit control in the main toolbar. It seems so useless to me and it doesn't make much sense to use this together with per-pattern time signatures. Does anyone actually use this feature?
Quote from: "Jojo"it doesn't make much sense to use this together with per-pattern time signatures.
I seem to miss the point, how is this a problem ?
It's very useful in Modern tempo mode, at least to remind you of the current time signature, so if you remove it from there I guess you plan to put it somewhere in the pattern editor gui, right ?
If you plan to only have this in the pattern properties dialog, I will miss it for sure and quite frankly I'd prefer to let it where it is.
Perhaps make it so that it
always displays the current time sig (and not only when playing).
Btw, what I would use in the main toolbar is a TAP button to set the bpm with mouse clicks.
click...click -> 133bpm 8)
Quote from: "Paul Legovitch"I seem to miss the point, how is this a problem ?
What is the spin button next to it supposed to change? The default rows per beat or the rows per beat for this pattern? Why are there just rows per beat, and not also rows per measure? Are the changes permanent or temporary?
Up until recently, changing the RPB using this spin control didn't even mark the module as modified (although this can very well change playback), which indicates that probably not a lot of thoughts have been put into this display.
QuoteIt's very useful in Modern tempo mode, at least to remind you of the current time signature
But then again, there are also pattern highlights, which do exactly the same thing.
QuotePerhaps make it so that it always displays the current time sig (and not only when playing).
Now with that new feature, this is even more difficult than it already was.
QuoteBtw, what I would use in the main toolbar is a TAP button to set the bpm with mouse clicks.
You mean like the spin buttons next to the tempo control?
Quote from: "Jojo"But then again, there are also pattern highlights, which do exactly the same thing.
You mean secondary highlights, I always uncheck this : the pattern has too much stripes with these, thus I need to see this value.
Now, based on what you say (this element not marking the module as modified, etc), then ok I guess it's better to get rid of it. :lol:
But if possible I'd rather have these 2 values (RPB and RPM) appear in the pattern editor gui (next to pattern name and seq name perhaps), not only in the pattern properties dialog, to be able to instantly see the time signature changes when playing the song or when browsing through the patterns.
I think the default values should also appear in the general tab gui next to the tempo (btw the tempo slider seems to me like a rather useless element there).
About the TAP button :
Quote from: "Jojo"You mean like the spin buttons next to the tempo control?
No. Every daw has this : you have a tempo in mind, you click several time
in rhythm on a button (often called TAP, near the bpm value) and based on the time elapsed between two clicks, the software sets the correct bpm. Very useful.
Quote from: "Jojo"Hmm.. I'm not quite sure what to do with that Rows per Beat edit control in the main toolbar. It seems so useless to me and it doesn't make much sense to use this together with per-pattern time signatures. Does anyone actually use this feature?
As i was writing up the Main Toolbar in the help manual, i also wondered about this. Since you can't change the tempo permanently either with that control, i would just as soon implement a less obtrusive control, or make it optionable. :?
Quote from: "Jojo"This is working better than expected... The engine was already well prepared for such a feature.
(http://sagagames.de/ithumb/show/patternsignature1320on21.png)
Whoops! Forgot to check back here. But what I see up there looks awesome! :welldone:
Quote from: "Skaven"Whoops! Forgot to check back here.
Well, did you have fun at ASM at least? :lol:
Quote from: "Jojo"Well, did you have fun at ASM at least? :lol:
Certainly! Awesome compo entries there, again! Glad to see the scene is still so very alive (even if I'm not). :)
Quote from: "Jojo"Hmm.. I'm not quite sure what to do with that Rows per Beat edit control in the main toolbar. It seems so useless to me and it doesn't make much sense to use this together with per-pattern time signatures. Does anyone actually use this feature?
Well, I don't - but that's actually just because I never had any idea what to use them for. They seem greyed out and inaccessible unless the song is playing, and then you can tweak the tempo / TBP / RPB values. I guess they're useful for users who do realtime stuff, such as, recording notes realtime or playing patterns in a live situation?
The speed/tempo controls are actually a bit useful for quick tweaking, but I don't really use those either. And I personally don't see much use in temporarily changing the RPB value especially since it leads to quite a few hacks or rewriting some of the orderlist code...
Quote from: "Jojo"This is working better than expected... The engine was already well prepared for such a feature.
So.. I guess this pattern-specific custom highlight is coming up in the next build? :)
I have just a tiny little comment: maybe you should indicate what the "signature override" does by adding the string "(row highlight)" to the dialogue window. So that people know it only affects the row highlight, and doesn't change the BPM or such.
Quote from: "Skaven"I have just a tiny little comment: maybe you should indicate what the "signature override" does by adding the string "(row highlight)" to the dialogue window. So that people know it only affects the row highlight, and doesn't change the BPM or such.
Well, in modern tempo mode, it actually does that: The module "speed" serves as the "real" BPM value and the duration of a row only depends on the speed and rows per beat values. So changing the RPB from 4 to 8 would actually decrease the duration of a row. So I'm not sure if that hint would make too much sense. (Well, maybe as an addition it would...)
QuoteSo.. I guess this pattern-specific custom highlight is coming up in the next build?
It's now available in the "try-out build (http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe)" as always. Not an "official" build for spreading, but it should work. :)
I have tested this. Could you implement this feature without changing the RPB value? is just like "only visual" Meaning that, in a 8 RPB pattern, apply 4 RBP only for visual (for example), unlinking the override custom tme signature. Would it be possible? (a checkbox in Colours tab)
I don't quite understand the change you request, but the visuals are tightly connected to the playback, so I don't quite understand why you would just want the pattern drawing to be affected.
Quote from: "Jojo"[...] but the visuals are tightly connected to the playback[...]
I just want that the override don't cause effects on the playback, just the option of choose linked or not. I need this feature too, but keeping the old mode too.
The RPB value only affects modern tempo mode, not classic tempo mode. What's the problem? :s
Hard to explain, in a whole, apply visually the 4 RPB in an original 8 RPB without this affects in playback, in the modern tempo mode. I am asking for a control, wich enable or disable this.
I think that would make things just a lot more complicated and wouldn't be too useful. Afterall, the highlighting does indicate rows and measure. That's how's defined in the setup.
Quote from: "Jojo"I think that would make things just a lot more complicated and wouldn't be too useful. Afterall, the highlighting does indicate rows and measure. That's how's defined in the setup.
Yes, for that I have found a solution, you can forget it. :)
Quote from: "Jojo"QuoteSo.. I guess this pattern-specific custom highlight is coming up in the next build?
It's now available in the "try-out build (http://sagagames.de/stuff/mptrack.exe)" as always. Not an "official" build for spreading, but it should work. :)
Just got the latest test build and tried it out. It works fabulously! :D Editing the exotically rhythmed patterns is much easier now.
Yeah, thanks for this. I was finding time signatures awkward in MPT.