Author Topic: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules  (Read 1136 times)

Offline Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz

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Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« on: November 09, 2018, 14:58:41 »
I think scene and trackers really was about making something with limited means. Which now means a 32k size limit. And is a kind of "keep in touch with roots" thing, unproud and down to the essence.
32K modules, using 6 channels also (avoiding also the need for mastering) and high ratio compressed samples, favoring a lowerbit/3rd order overtone, for drums and chords, and supporting cyclic wavetables for leads, and FM for basses++ would be a completely "32K Scene" thing,  what do you think? Taking the legacy of Scene to its conclusion.

As for compression I think mp3 probably is too phasey, while ogg is better, but a litte too poor with high ratios,  probably a compression scheme more suited towards, drums, chords, etc, with a  saturated lowbit 3rd order sound.

A feature might also be interpolation 0 to X point slider, getting some hifreq from 0 points also. A kind of cyclic wavetable thing, might be switching cyclic waveform every 16th or 32th, and just having a table for this, where one can insert for instace 1,2,2,3 for a simplified wavetable attack waveform, wavetable bodywaveform (two lines), wavetable decay waveform. And more sophisticated stuff.

Getting compressed samples also would mean drums on 32K track aswell, and take it near a perfection of the scene phenomena.

Peace.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:05:11 by WeEdsUZ towN SceNE »
Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz - 8 bit, 8 track, Vintage.

Offline manx

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Re: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2018, 08:24:20 »

I think scene and trackers really was about making something with limited means. And is a kind of "keep in touch with roots" thing.
I think 32K modules, using 6 channels also, avoiding the need for mastering, and completely "32K Scene" thing, with compressed samples (probably high ratio such as 8:1) would be good, what do you think?

Well, there is sure some merit in having some competition with somewhat arbitrarily chosen limits (as is common in the scene). However, I do not think it makes particularly much sense to invent a special format or format feature specifically tune for such a purpose, because such undertaking would involve a *very huge* amount of work, for very little, in particular general purpose, gains, if any at all.


I think mp3 probably is too phasey, while ogg is better, but a litte too poor, maybe a compression scheme more suited towards, drums, chords, etc.

Fundamentally, no perceptual lossy audio codec is suitable for (pitched) sample playback because the perceptual model of human hearing exploited by lossy codecs depends (amonst other aspects) on absolute frequencies (which change when playing a sample at different pitches) as opposed to only the relative frequencies contained in the sample. As it is thus obviously not useful for sound quality, I do not think it is very likely that OpenMPT will explicitly add support for creating modules containing lossy compressed samples.


Maybe even a saturated 3rd order sound, would be best, as it is the most transparent "distortion". (Indeed FM like trying to take out what is not third order overtones)

Well, OpenMPT 1.28 will have support for FM-synthesized instruments in S3M and MPTM modules by the means of an included OPL chip emulation.


Having said all that, it is already perfectly possible to create modules smaller than 32k. By any or multiple of the following means:
  • restricting oneself to very short samples, possibly with loops
  • using IT/MPTM sample compression
  • using external module packers (for which certain players have support), in particular Un4seen MO3, which uses MP3, Vorbis and some internal lossless compression for samples, as well as compresses all other module data also; OpenMPT and libopenmpt both support loading MO3 files, although we cannot write them
  • using OPL instruments in S3M or MPTM

Offline Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz

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Re: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2018, 17:19:57 »
To me, trackers really only is about keeping the scene vibe alive, which was the reason for tracker music to begin with. Which I feel is best preserved in such a format.

Peace.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:05:32 by WeEdsUZ towN SceNE »
Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz - 8 bit, 8 track, Vintage.

Offline Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz

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Re: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2018, 15:52:33 »
Updated first post abit.
Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz - 8 bit, 8 track, Vintage.

Offline Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz

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Re: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2018, 16:32:21 »
Ok, then I´ve kind of put the idea out there, for those interested in the original scene vibe, which now is 32K size limit.

Peace!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:05:51 by WeEdsUZ towN SceNE »
Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz - 8 bit, 8 track, Vintage.

Offline Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz

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Re: Compressed Samples for 32K Modules
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 01:16:52 »
Weedsuz signing off.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:02:17 by WeEdsUZ towN SceNE »
Cigsuz AKA Weedsuz - 8 bit, 8 track, Vintage.