Author Topic: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?  (Read 14108 times)

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 80
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2016, 03:49:07 »
Read this more closely. When you do take a look at the MIDIs with Anvil Studio.
Quote from:  readme.txt
The MIDI import supports both format 0 and 1. It expects that notes are
placed in channels 1-8
(or 1-6 plus drum channel), and there is no more
than 1 note in a channel at a time
. It imports notes only, with
instrument assigned by the channel number. If the drum channel is
present, it gets imported into SNES channels 7-8, channel 7 is used for
hats, and channel 8 for kick, snare, and toms. Instrument numbers
assigned to different drums are 10 for kick, 11 for snare, 12 for toms,
13 for hats.
Drum channel is Channel 10. The number of simultaneous voices in each of them easily exceed 8. Not only that but one of the is over 5min long, at least with N-SPC I think the max length for sequence data is around 3:30s. Without extensive work it is nigh impossible to make it sound any better on the SNES. That is those midi's are "PSX tier", a system allowing 24 voices concurrently. You should bite the bullet and every now & then work with OpenMPT. Lately I've been musically uninspired so all I do is take songs and turn them into SPCs. On your leisure go to the Free Download section in the forums and open some tracker files so you can see what the program is capable of.
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2016, 14:11:07 »
Read this more closely. When you do take a look at the MIDIs with Anvil Studio.
Quote from:  readme.txt
The MIDI import supports both format 0 and 1. It expects that notes are
placed in channels 1-8
(or 1-6 plus drum channel), and there is no more
than 1 note in a channel at a time
. It imports notes only, with
instrument assigned by the channel number. If the drum channel is
present, it gets imported into SNES channels 7-8, channel 7 is used for
hats, and channel 8 for kick, snare, and toms. Instrument numbers
assigned to different drums are 10 for kick, 11 for snare, 12 for toms,
13 for hats.
Drum channel is Channel 10. The number of simultaneous voices in each of them easily exceed 8. Not only that but one of the is over 5min long, at least with N-SPC I think the max length for sequence data is around 3:30s. Without extensive work it is nigh impossible to make it sound any better on the SNES. That is those midi's are "PSX tier", a system allowing 24 voices concurrently. You should bite the bullet and every now & then work with OpenMPT. Lately I've been musically uninspired so all I do is take songs and turn them into SPCs. On your leisure go to the Free Download section in the forums and open some tracker files so you can see what the program is capable of.

Yeah, that`s what I am thinking too tbh, especially since a lot of songs I want to make would REALLY benefit with some echo (like Megaman 8`s OST), so I think that I`ll try and use OpenMPT for that, then. XD

EDIT: But yeah, about the MIDI files (well, at least, the Touhou ones), I found out that the Vessel of Stars ~ Casket of Star MIDI file wasnt working because SNESGSS couldnt really translate the japanese words that was in the name of the MIDI well (yeah, I know, a pretty weird reason, right? XD). The Strawberry Crisis one, however... I think that I`ll going to have to cut the overall time of the MIDI file and see if it works. Sadly, though, I dont think that the Destiny MIDI is going to work well, since I am going to have to cut its quality exponentially, so I`ll just leave it at that (or just use OpenMPT for that, when I can not be lazy and try to arrange the notes on the MIDI file). XD

EDIT 2: Well, I have tried taking out the instruments at the start of the loop on the Strawberry Crisis MIDI, but I still dunno how to actually cut the loop (and I am not finding concrete enough tutorials for that, so I have no idea on how to find tutorials either). Is Anvil Studio really the best MIDI editor to cut loops on the MIDI file? I`m asking that because I saw that the MIDI file in question could actually work on SNESGSS, since I actually removed some of its instruments to fit the 8-channel limit and it worked just fine (especially since the MIDI had, like, 9 channels total and a shitload of duplicate channels, so it didnt really have any alteration on the overall sound), but if it still doesnt work after I cut the loop, I`ll give it a try on OpenMPT and do the song that way.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 15:37:20 by Theultimate12 »

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 80
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2016, 23:03:36 »
It's not just about the midi. You have to make sure there are NO CHORDS whatsoever in a channel. Even if you bring it down to precisely 8, a channel that ends up playing 2 notes at the same time could bring the polyphony higher than 8. I know you mentioned you have FL Studio and that program can also edit MIDI's as well. If you're not particularly good at reading sheet music then FL Studio is a better editing option, after all it's a paid DAW.

You could make any MIDI work but it's just a matter of creativity and how much effort you're willing to put into it. Each of those midis contain chords in them so no matter what it's not going to be a trivial task.
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2016, 01:28:10 »
It's not just about the midi. You have to make sure there are NO CHORDS whatsoever in a channel. Even if you bring it down to precisely 8, a channel that ends up playing 2 notes at the same time could bring the polyphony higher than 8. I know you mentioned you have FL Studio and that program can also edit MIDI's as well. If you're not particularly good at reading sheet music then FL Studio is a better editing option, after all it's a paid DAW.

You could make any MIDI work but it's just a matter of creativity and how much effort you're willing to put into it. Each of those midis contain chords in them so no matter what it's not going to be a trivial task.

Well, I have tried putting the MIDI files into FL Studio, but when I tried to look at the MIDI channels, all of them said they had no chords. How can you find and remove chords, though? That`s what I want to know. XD

Offline Brozilla

  • Inspired artist
  • **
  • Posts: 80
  • Gender: Male
  • Operating System: Windows 10
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2016, 06:23:30 »
That is where taking a music class would've come in handy, if you did then word that question better. :P
Believe me I'm trying to help but it was no joke when saying you should take your time and work on a smaller project, at least try out making an original song. That (the chords) is probably the least intelligent question you've asked thus far. The rest were tracker/SNES related but this is very much a musical thing. It's possible you didn't import the track right but even then.

A chord is 2 or more notes playing concurrently. Example being C-E-B. Anvil Studio already shows you the channels/parts with chords but FL Studio is easier for extensive editing. Honestly right now you're trying to bite off more than you can chew with those files. Number 1 the total polyphony exceeds 8. Number 2 the midi includes chords which isn't conformant to the SNESGSS Midi Import Function. Of course you could still pull it off and make the SPC but ultimately it's going to sound stripped down and potentially even empty. Most people when they do covers actually use soundfonts. Only the most hardcore will use ASM and/or MML, the try-hards will make SPCs through other means.
44.1 vs. 48khz sampling rate

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2016, 13:27:19 »
That is where taking a music class would've come in handy, if you did then word that question better. :P
Believe me I'm trying to help but it was no joke when saying you should take your time and work on a smaller project, at least try out making an original song. That (the chords) is probably the least intelligent question you've asked thus far. The rest were tracker/SNES related but this is very much a musical thing. It's possible you didn't import the track right but even then.

A chord is 2 or more notes playing concurrently. Example being C-E-B. Anvil Studio already shows you the channels/parts with chords but FL Studio is easier for extensive editing. Honestly right now you're trying to bite off more than you can chew with those files. Number 1 the total polyphony exceeds 8. Number 2 the midi includes chords which isn't conformant to the SNESGSS Midi Import Function. Of course you could still pull it off and make the SPC but ultimately it's going to sound stripped down and potentially even empty. Most people when they do covers actually use soundfonts. Only the most hardcore will use ASM and/or MML, the try-hards will make SPCs through other means.

Yeah, all right, then. I dont think that I can do this anyway, so I think that I`ll just leave it at that for now. Really sorry for bothering you with all of this. XD

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,292
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 7 x64
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2016, 15:12:27 »
To summarize: No, there is no "make any song automatically sound great on the SNES" tool and there most likely never will be. Writing music within the SNES limitations is a lot of manual labour and if you are not willing to invest tons of time into that, then better don't try writing (or converting) SNES music.
End of thread. :)
ยป No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Theultimate12

  • Active artist
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Operating System: Windows
Re: How can I get all channels to actually produce any sound?
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2016, 23:02:46 »
To summarize: No, there is no "make any song automatically sound great on the SNES" tool and there most likely never will be. Writing music within the SNES limitations is a lot of manual labour and if you are not willing to invest tons of time into that, then better don't try writing (or converting) SNES music.
End of thread. :)

Yeah, I know. I am trying my best to understand all of this shit, though, and heck, I have been doing pretty damn well so far, so I think that I can do actual SNES styled music. Plus, I actually found working MIDI files for the songs I mentioned AND there is a program which lets me get MIDI files from DS games (since the other songs I want to get MIDI files of are from DS games), so its not all lost.