Author Topic: Param editor: Randomize function  (Read 5406 times)

Offline Rakib

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Param editor: Randomize function
« on: March 31, 2010, 14:16:31 »
I want a feature that allows you randomize values in the param editor.
^^

Offline 8bitbubsy

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 15:56:40 »
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I can't see any situation where you'd need this... If you don't know how the values for each command affect the sound, then learn it. In the end you can almost feel what value is right in any situation. It's all about training.  :)

Offline Saga Musix

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 15:58:58 »
Well, the question here is if Rakib means something like the "random variation" for instruments or completely random values - i guess both would be nice to have.
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Offline Harbinger

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Re: Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 16:21:42 »
Quote from: "Rakib"
I want a feature that allows you randomize values in the param editor.
Do you mean as an interpolation function, or during playback?

Offline Rakib

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 16:33:14 »
I have been wanting a interpolation function, but this is just a randomizer this time. Let's say a cutoff filter which variates from 0-z80. Electronic music is usually called to be to predictable and straigth forward, with a randomizer it's easier to avoid that.
^^

Offline psishock

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 07:33:54 »
This issue could be extended to some implementation of the LFO meta plugin.
You could have sine, square, saw, triangle or noise (effectively the random) wave forms, and you can control any parts of the chosen synth through the midi. You can bpm sync (or not, if wished) the LFO. More advanced implementation could have custom shapes. This meta plugin is a huge advantage in other hosts, i couldn't imagine my life without it anymore. Its super useful for almost anything.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2010, 08:39:15 »
Yeah, something like this would already exist if it was possible to send messages between VSTs. However, MPT  can't do that yet.
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Offline psishock

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2010, 08:47:58 »
oh well, bummer then.
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Offline Rakib

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 22:47:04 »
Ok, so I made a mockup on how you could have in the editor instead of the param editor.



Or we could have a 'subfolder' with interpolation on it.
^^

Offline Paul Legovitch

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 23:38:26 »
Hi Rakib,
You know you can easily do this with the random button of volfx (at the bottom of the window).
You can also set the amount of randomness (5 by default).
This way you can easily set a range of minimum/maximum values by first drawing the average value(s) you want to wander around.
Also clicking multiple times on the random button will slowly increase the randomness.
Be sure to check the "notes only" button to enter random values only in the rows where notes are triggered (most of the time you don't want to randomly modify the volume after the note is triggered as it can sound pretty bad).

If this was implemented in ompt, it would be better to at least be able to control the amount of randomness or alternatively to be able to set a maximum and a minimum value.
Pure random values is not very musical in most cases : you don't want to have extreme panning values or 0 volume, etc... you need a bit more control don't you think ?

Offline Rakib

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 00:58:39 »
Although your software is great, is it to much hazzle to find the program every time you're using modplug. I suggest a button on modplug toolbar  where you can press it to open VolFx Manager that automatically loads in the pattern you are working on. The VolFx Manager has to be saved in the same folder as modplug it self.

Or is it possible to implement the code in c++ so that we could have your great software as a part of modplug tracker, I don't think the logic you've made would be to hard to translate to c++, the gui might be.

About randomness, it is good to do some strange stuff and the alter it to fit to what you want. I do use the randomizer on vst plugins a lot to find sounds and work from there. And you must also not forget that IT/MPTM format have support for random variation for volume/panning/cutoff/resonance, sadly it only works for samples, and the thing is that you can't see the values and it has to be defined in the instruments tab, but still it is a valuable asset in my songs.

Btw does your software support the new pc notes, because that was my plan of primary use. And the download links doesn't work no more.
^^

Offline Paul Legovitch

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2010, 08:32:52 »
On my desktop toolbar I have ompt and volfx next to each other as quick launch icons, that's very easy to use this way and frankly I could not live without it now.
But don't bother if you're using the mptm format, it won't work for now. Plus there's still some bugs here and there.
I don't think it would be hard to implement all of this in the param editor of ompt, it would be time consuming though. The first thing to add would be vol column support, that's why I created volfx in the first place.
I am planning to add PC notes support but that will need a new approach since it's impossible to precisely use the 1000 values graphically (look at ompt's param editor, possible values are 0 - 6 - 13 - 19 - 25...)
My idea would be to use interpolation curves between values (like in most daw's automation tracks) but I would need people like you to get the motivation and to know what's really needed.

Anyway, the random variation for volume/panning/cutoff/resonance in the instrument tab lets you define the amount of randomness, that's very important. I used filter random with clavinet type instruments, it's really cool.

I think a random option would be better in the param editor (as you suggested in the first post) than in the right click menu because you would be able to see the result graphically and quickly correct some values while listening to the result.

Offline Rakib

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Param editor: Randomize function
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 10:46:59 »
Oh well, all my new songs are done in MPTM :(
^^