Author Topic: Loudness Wars.  (Read 15399 times)

Offline Saga Musix

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2008, 17:24:00 »
heh, witty and fitting description. :)
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Offline Trancefreak

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 02:50:35 »
From what I see, both dynamic range compressors and limiters reduce peaks in audio. Don't they both affect the audio quality?

Also, I used a limiter on my music, and it looks like the whole thing was amplified, except for the peaks, which became quieter compared to the rest of the audio. Does that mean that the limiter was actually a compressor?

I'm confused. :(
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Offline LPChip

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 06:07:51 »
Quote from: "Trancefreak"
From what I see, both dynamic range compressors and limiters reduce peaks in audio. Don't they both affect the audio quality?

Also, I used a limiter on my music, and it looks like the whole thing was amplified, except for the peaks, which became quieter compared to the rest of the audio. Does that mean that the limiter was actually a compressor?

I'm confused. :(


Yes. In fact, a limiter is a compressor set to extreme settings. Its used to remove peaks so you can make the song louder.

Though, normally a compressor used differently can produce a different effect.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 10:22:30 »
Quote
Yes. In fact, a limiter is a compressor set to extreme settings.
Not quite.

A limiter, as the name implies, limits the audio level. If the level goes above a certain threshold, it is limited - of course this eliminates peaks, how else should it work?

A compressor adjusts the gain on the fly (the sensitivity of the effect depends on the chosen parameters), to make quiet parts louder and loud parts quieter.
The essential difference is that a limiter just does the latter, but not the former. An audio signal can easily "pump" when applying a compressor wrong, and that's most often the cast if you actually wanted to use a limiter but used a compressor instead.
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Offline g

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 23:16:58 »
Quote from: "Trancefreak"
Does that mean that the limiter was actually a compressor?

Yes, but a limiter is an application of a compressor. Read this article.

Offline phanoo

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2010, 07:58:55 »
I'm totally against the whole song compression. It's against the physical acoustic laws that say more you have sounds overlapped more the volume is high. Dance or classical I don't care. You can make a good electro-hardcore tune without any global compression, BUT using compression on individual samples.
I think most commercial music uses lots of compression because it's "shitty music to be listened on car/bus/subway". Compression give a easier-to-listen sound when the background noise is loud, I think it's the reason why so many CDs are abusively compressed... (many people only listen to music only in noisy environment).
Sad, because this will sound bad (and tiring) when listened at home on good audio equipment...
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Offline KrazyKatz

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2010, 13:20:22 »
Well, you make a point phanoo, and the level does need to be moderated for the medium. But this wasn't the original reason that loudness wars started. It started on the simple premise that people thought louder sounded better on a first impression. After the fact that it was compressed/limited to death people saw they can block out the background noise with it, and as a result Ipod is the main medium when it should not be.

But I'm sure that in a few years you will see:

Band X from the 1990s/2000s/2010s
Re-mastered to include full dynamic ratio!
Only $99.95

So there is a cash cow waiting to happen. There is so much music out there that loses it's appeal in the long run because it's compressed to hell. And they can sell it all over again.
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Offline psishock

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2010, 03:23:58 »
Its not the compressors fault that people are abusing it. It's a pretty useful effect and it can be a huge help in the right hand.

Sadly the "abused" state became standard nowdays. If you're not doing it, you're not competitive. (not that the potential labels/radiostations will not squeeze every single bit of the dynamic headroom, out from your sent audio material before spreading the product.) :)
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 06:25:18 »
Well, I'm pretty sure all those bedroom musicians abusing compressors are not even aiming for airtime, so "being competitive" is a bad excuse here. We definitely need more "headroom musicians" again.
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 13:44:18 »
We definitely need more "headroom musicians" again.

Agreed. The only thing I fear is, that if you make a dance song with headroom, it just doesn't sound right. Of course, most styles would work best if there's headroom, but the more electronic styles (especially those with hard in their name) will most likely suffer from adding headroom to the mix.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2010, 20:16:41 »
Quote
but the more electronic styles (especially those with hard in their name) will most likely suffer from adding headroom to the mix.
I don't agree at all here. Hardcore music from the 90s was just "hard", but not compressed to death. It was just before the whole compression craze. But on the opposite, some styles like French House simply don't work without heavy sidechain compression of course. But sidechaining is still different from hard global limiting.
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Offline LPChip

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2010, 08:42:01 »
Yeah, I agree there. I did mixed up sidechaining with global limiting when writing that earlier post :$ X)
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline sso

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2012, 01:58:34 »
it comes to mind that in that time, more and more people have been getting computers.


the standard audio that comes with a computer has a petite amplifier.
audio that isnt compressed to shit like most modern music, sounds Low on those computers without an external amplifier (Which most dont have.)
also, the portable mp3 players have lousy amplifiers as well.

and what people want often are the loud basses.

cant think of another reason for it.

Offline psishock

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 02:49:17 »
cant think of another reason for it.
imho the main reason is consistence. Listening to a well engineered/mastered song and right after listening to a poorly made one feels like a significant drop on the volume level. People dont really like to turn kilometers on their volume bars/knobs while shuffling through a playlists (i dont, for sure). Same goes with radios and any other streaming sources. That's one of the reason why proper mastering became a requirement nowadays, if anyone plans to open to larger masses with his song.
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Offline sso

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Re: Loudness Wars.
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 05:07:37 »
cant think of another reason for it.
imho the main reason is consistence. Listening to a well engineered/mastered song and right after listening to a poorly made one feels like a significant drop on the volume level. People dont really like to turn kilometers on their volume bars/knobs while shuffling through a playlists (i dont, for sure). Same goes with radios and any other streaming sources. That's one of the reason why proper mastering became a requirement nowadays, if anyone plans to open to larger masses with his song.

could you elaborate on that?