Author Topic: Loudness Wars.  (Read 14029 times)

Offline KrazyKatz

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Loudness Wars.
« on: November 18, 2007, 19:43:21 »
Excellent video describing the terrible modern calamity that plagues our music. I Recommend this be moved into technical documents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
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Offline LPChip

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 20:07:04 »
Nice video. I totally agree that the modern "making it as loud as possible" aspect just ruins the song.

And although I think that it could go into the tech docs section, I'd like to see more opinions about this idea's, and possible tips and tricks first.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
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Offline Saga Musix

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 20:24:08 »
This is true, but I also think that compressing the output is also essential for different styles, like in electronica. It really depends on the tune IMO :)
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Offline KrazyKatz

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2007, 20:41:02 »
Certain electronic music is defined by its compressed and mechanical levels, so I would agree. But when you have real life players expression turned into the same mechanical approach... thats just destruction of art.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2007, 21:00:19 »
Indeed. Compression shouldn't be applied to any rock or jazz genres...
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Offline KrazyKatz

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2007, 21:58:09 »
Well Compression does have a place in Rock, Jazz and even the Classical Genre.  I mean the human voice singing near a microphone invariably causes  unnecessary peaks, and sometimes a drummer can hit the snare ridiculously hard at  an inopportune moment, but in this case the point of compression is to actually make it sound more natural and fluent. The issue at hand is that the modern approach is  no longer the use compression, but  the abuse of it.
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Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 01:02:35 »
Abuse it is. I once loaded an Eminem-song from an audio-cd my granddaughter had, and it looked like this :



This is ridiculous. It's a maximum compressed MP3 re-converted to WAV to be written on an audio-cd.

I don't agree, that electronic music should be compressed as default, because it's mechanical.
I understand the emphasis on compression, because it has been common use for a quick transport of audio-files on the Net.
But in reality, it's just one of those tools. Sometimes you use it, sometimes not. Like a flanger.

In the case of the vocal or drummer peaks, a limiter is the first tool to choose, not a compressor.
A limiter just decreases the peaks, so the track can be normalized to a higher percentage, but it doesn't loose it's dynamic spectrum.
If compression is used, not only the peaks are cut off, but the softest passages wil be amplified as well.
To make it, yes, as loud as possible. So the dynamic spectrum gets a smaller range of differences.
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Offline Saga Musix

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 11:18:59 »
Quote from: "KrazyKatz"
Well Compression does have a place in Rock, Jazz and even the Classical Genre.  I mean the human voice singing near a microphone invariably causes  unnecessary peaks, and sometimes a drummer can hit the snare ridiculously hard at  an inopportune moment, but in this case the point of compression is to actually make it sound more natural and fluent. The issue at hand is that the modern approach is  no longer the use compression, but  the abuse of it.


I agree that Vocals have to be compressed / limited, but I was talking about compressing a whole song :)
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Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2007, 01:15:05 »
I just saw the movie for the first time. Excellent story with clear arguments.
I will place this link in a Dutch Synth-forum.
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Offline Snu

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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2007, 02:16:19 »
Quote from: "Sam_Zen"
This is ridiculous. It's a maximum compressed MP3 re-converted to WAV to be written on an audio-cd.

I don't agree, that electronic music should be compressed as default, because it's mechanical.
I understand the emphasis on compression, because it has been common use for a quick transport of audio-files on the Net.


huh? i think you are confusing dynamic compression with file compression (mp3s).  a highly compressed mp3 would sound terrible for entirely different reasons.

anyway, nice video, ill have to send it to some friends of mine whom i have tried to explain this to.
also, this trend is especially noticable (and disturbing) on radio stations, i cant even listen to the radio anymore, it just sounds like over-compressed crap.

Offline Sam_Zen

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2007, 03:57:12 »
@ Snu
You're right about a possible confusion.
I know the dynamic compression tool of a wav-editor is something else, as converting a file to a compressed format.

You mention radio, but over here there was a public discussion about being the sound of commercials between tv-programs being too loud suddenly, according to the remote-setting of the tv. There was a political debate about this, but of course about the wrong criteria. They talked about a max volume percentage, while it should be of course about max compression percentage.
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Offline psishock

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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 16:58:57 »
"when there's no quiet, there can be no loud"
priceless quote, i use this technique a lot and it realy gives that "dramatic feel" or punch when you need it. I agree, that many artist dont care about "soft" voices, but trying to make every single instrument they have sound loud as possible.
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Offline Saga Musix

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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 20:37:08 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rye_D9qnwFM
just listen to this (the tune is like that, it's not youtube destroying it)
one can say that we're all used to sidechain compressors now, especially in dance music, but the vocal compressor is just utter shit... it sounds totally out of control.
is that really what people need to make their remix outstanding?
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Offline LPChip

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 10:02:14 »
Indeed, this is so ugly compressed. At first I thought it was supposed to be like that, but appearantly some parts aren't compressed like this because there's no interfearing signal and then it sounds good.

Yuck!
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
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Offline Sam_Zen

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Loudness Wars.
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 14:53:54 »
Blinded by the might
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