Author Topic: New iconset  (Read 18301 times)

Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2007, 22:50:49 »
Matt Hartman
fear in change - tech types - mildly arrogant - fabric of life - rather self-centered ...
With all due respect.. I'm ROFL.
But don't prescribe me how supportive I have to be..
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Offline seventhson

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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2007, 05:41:47 »
@Matt Hartman

I have to agree with LPChip here.
Who the hell are you to call the devs,or as you like to put it "tech types", arrogant?
FYI these guys have a live outside MPT and are doing this for free.
Perhaps the devs feel that this is an unnecesary feature or they'd just like to put their energy into improving other things first,either way it's their choice to make,not yours,and if you feel it is yours to make i suggest you start learning to code.
People should be a bit more gratefull for the time and energy these guys have so kindly invested in improving MPT.

Offline älskling

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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 07:17:14 »
I don't really mind the looks of the MPT buttons... I would like them to be bigger tho.

IIRC, Olivier could be slightly arrogant at times, but to call the current developers arrogant is well arrogant in itself! Of course it's hard to take the statement seriously when you say MPT looks like a DOS program. It doesn't. It looks more like Windows 95, but with flat buttons (if you enabled flat buttons).

I think the best thing to do is to re-write the whole app from start, ignoring MFC and open source and calling it ReOpenModPlug.

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 07:49:39 »
Quote from: "älskling"
I think the best thing to do is to re-write the whole app from start, ignoring MFC and open source and calling it ReOpenModPlug.


Something I've been thinking of too, except that it doesn't have to get a namechange. OpenMPT ver 2.0 would do :)

I've also discussed this idea with Rewbs for more than a year back, and although he was very excited about the idea, he also told me that he doesn't have the time nor skills to do such big thing. We tried to put together a team of different developers that could cope with these different parts but it never got from the ground, simply due to the lack of time.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline dBlues

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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 14:44:06 »
Quote from: "älskling"
I think the best thing to do is to re-write the whole app from start, ignoring MFC and open source and calling it ReOpenModPlug.


As they say in the jungle: "If Modplug works, don't fix, or definitely don't rewrite Modplug"
Strive for excellence, not perfection.

Offline älskling

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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 17:08:36 »
Quote from: "dBlues"
Quote from: "älskling"
I think the best thing to do is to re-write the whole app from start, ignoring MFC and open source and calling it ReOpenModPlug.


As they say in the jungle: "If Modplug works, don't fix, or definitely don't rewrite Modplug"


In the jungle they should stick with Modplug 1.16 and live happily ever after.

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2007, 10:23:32 »
Whoa... You know, I never really meant to spark so much angst with this. From my perspective as a computer science student (programmer) and web developer (designer and coder), I like things that are functional _and_ pretty. So I thought that MPT could do with some prettification. That being said, I've had to put this on the backburner. The back-most burner, in fact, what with exams, and all sorts of work etc. Rest assured, there has been some progress made. I hope to get it done by the end of the year. =P

Personally, I'm not too fussed about the look. I just saw an opening for contribution, and I wanted to take it. To tell you the truth, with the work I've done in user interface design, most of the time users don't even notice when the icons change. They say that it "feels a bit better", but they can't put their finger on it. So everyone who was happy with the old icons will, when I finally finish, probably still be happy with the system, and not notice the change too much.

Having said that I wanted to contribute, I am, of course, happy for any and all help in this area. My initial idea was to base the icons around the Tango! icon set, using their guidelines and what not. But I've been lazy, and I've only been producing raster images, not SVGs. But IMHO, I don't see mpt using svg icons in the near future. =)

Offline dBlues

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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2007, 16:11:08 »
Quote from: "älskling"
Quote from: "dBlues"
Quote from: "älskling"
I think the best thing to do is to re-write the whole app from start, ignoring MFC and open source and calling it ReOpenModPlug.


As they say in the jungle: "If Modplug works, don't fix, or definitely don't rewrite Modplug"


In the jungle they should stick with Modplug 1.16 and live happily ever after.


When we are talking about software this complex, that works very good and is not impossibly twisted and messed up (like some C-programmed spaghetti piles are) so it can be further developed, there is no reason to re-write everything. It would be wasting of time and resources.
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Offline älskling

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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2007, 19:06:08 »
Quote from: "dBlues"

When we are talking about software this complex, that works very good and is not impossibly twisted and messed up (like some C-programmed spaghetti piles are) so it can be further developed, there is no reason to re-write everything. It would be wasting of time and resources.


While I understand that it's not feasible to re-write from scratch, I have to disagree.

Offline LPChip

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« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2007, 19:53:16 »
Quote from: "älskling"
Quote from: "dBlues"

When we are talking about software this complex, that works very good and is not impossibly twisted and messed up (like some C-programmed spaghetti piles are) so it can be further developed, there is no reason to re-write everything. It would be wasting of time and resources.


While I understand that it's not feasible to re-write from scratch, I have to disagree.


Indeed, but that would simply be because currently the code just doesn't allow for certain requests that have been made. The code has been written to a certain fixed format that doesn't allow much advanced changes.

For that reason alone we've talked about starting from scratch.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Matt Hartman

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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2007, 04:50:52 »
Everyone, take a deep breath.

I didn't say anything that warrants such a shame on you response. Rather, I spoke my mind, yes opinionated as it is, it's what I'm thinking nonetheless and why not share that?

I've been around for awhile, at times more active than others. Every time a request to aesthetically improve the program comes along I notice it's the same group of people quickly right there to give a million and one reasons why it should not happen. Not to mention in a very dismissive tone, which is like it or not a bit arrogant. This doesn't mean I hate anyone or am even slightly agitated. It's kinda like an "what's up with that".

This is a community supported program, that is, as long as you personally agree with the consensus of the dudes that are taking the reins on this. Boo hoo.

Simply put, you "guys" that ARE improving the Tracker, and trust me I greatly appreciate and respect all the efforts. But at the same time, you are the same lot that are perfectly happy with keeping the ancient interface the way it is. It's current state is so far past subjective. I understand the argument of function to a certain point. But it's made out that the two junctions can't cross each other, which if you look at any other program in the same category, is greatly false.

People like myself, are literally limited to the wants and desires of the folks that are revamping the tracker. Both a comforting and uneasy thought at the same time. The only reason is because you all are more talented in this area. I personally lack the understanding and patience it requires and make no bones about admitting that.

Speaking from a visual standpoint however, I often wonder if you collectively realize your weakness and are willing to approach the wants of others who don't always share in your personal viewpoints of where the tracker should go?

I tell you, if this were a capitol venture, you would have very little say. The customer is always right and you perform where the demand is rather than where you personally position it.

I'm pleased that the consideration to start the tracker from ground up is being considered. That shows some collective forward thinking branching out from self imaging.

Now...

Sam, you usually are the quick one to give argument to any such changes that don't personally validate your understandings of format and logical function. And I actually have to agree with you to some of your more liberal viewpoints. But every now and then here you come with your reasoning's as to why things should manifest the way you personally see them and that should be well for everyone else.  I don't think so man. That is in fact, like it or not, self centered. I'm just calling you out on it.

This is a community with walks of life all over the world. And guess what. You can roll on the floor laughing all night but it won't change the formula of different folks different strokes. It is far more productive to share in the enthusiasm of the possibilities rather than expand on the limitations as if it were written in stone. Something you do more often then not.

Every improvement the tracker has gained has been on the back end. I understand given the time and resources available, efforts are typically positioned this way. But good god men, we've been through a dozen or more versions and not one commonly realized effort has been made to address a series of aesthetic requests. Who cares if it's less "important". Shit, it's friggin solid fun and inspirational to change things up a bit, to paint the town!

My ultimate realization is that on the front end, the tracker is about as dry as these forums. There has to be some correlation here.


And yes, at times, it does shpork me a little.  :twisted:

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Offline dBlues

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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2007, 23:11:44 »
Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
... But at the same time, you are the same lot that are perfectly happy with keeping the ancient interface the way it is. It's current state is so far past subjective. I understand the argument of function to a certain point. But it's made out that the two junctions can't cross each other, which if you look at any other program in the same category, is greatly false.


Good points here Matt. But the thing is, you grow pretty sceptic over the years to ever see as 1)open 2)functioning 3)up to modern standards tracker as Modplug. All I am saying is, dont spend too much time on feature like pretty GUI, in expense of more important features, which can improve usability and introduce modern features. For me, it is great to have a light, clear (not cluttered with gradients and other fancy stuff), memory-efficient GUI. MFC sucks sometimes, ok, but if it takes too much time to replace it, dont. MFC can be used to target Vista also, so it is not a problem.

Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
I tell you, if this were a capitol venture, you would have very little say. The customer is always right and you perform where the demand is rather than where you personally position it.


I wouldn't compare an open tracker software to commercial software, the situation is completely different.


Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
I'm pleased that the consideration to start the tracker from ground up is being considered. That shows some collective forward thinking branching out from self imaging.


Its great that it turned up, so we can bury this idea right now.

Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
Sam, you usually are the quick one to give argument to any such changes that don't personally validate your understandings of format and logical function. And I actually have to agree with you to some of your more liberal viewpoints. But every now and then here you come with your reasoning's as to why things should manifest the way you personally see them and that should be well for everyone else.  I don't think so man. That is in fact, like it or not, self centered. I'm just calling you out on it.


A bit unnecessary? I think everyone has a right for an opinion. And it is good that we dont take all feature requests for granted, it is right to question them. By all means brainstorm until you drop, without any critique, but after that, always criticize.

And everyone makes mistakes, it is inherently human, and therefore we are entitled to it. Of course, nobody wants to admit being wrong :shock: (also inherently human:) ).

Quote from: "Matt Hartman"
Every improvement the tracker has gained has been on the back end. I understand given the time and resources available, efforts are typically positioned this way. But good god men, we've been through a dozen or more versions and not one commonly realized effort has been made to address a series of aesthetic requests. Who cares if it's less "important". Shit, it's friggin solid fun and inspirational to change things up a bit, to paint the town!


I think if you are a very visual person, it can get to you to use an unpolished interface. By all means, change icons and colors, add skin support, do whatever, but do it on low priority.
Strive for excellence, not perfection.

Offline Sam_Zen

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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2007, 00:10:23 »
2 Matt
Quote
I spoke my mind, yes opinionated as it is, it's what I'm thinking nonetheless and why not share that?


Quote
..why things should manifest the way you personally see them and that should be well for everyone else.


We're just discussing matters here, hopefully on an equal level. Indeed sharing opinions. But..
The first quote is about yourself. You are just speaking your mind. Fine.
The second quote is about me. Now a strange turn of projection takes place. No longer am I also speaking my mind,
but I'm supposed to pretend that my personal view is good for everyone else...

Quote
..not one commonly realized effort has been made to address a series of aesthetic requests.

Aesthetics ? Now we're talking ..!
More aesthetic value of MPT ? I would support it. But so far this has often been requested with imo the wrong arguments.
For example, it is coupled to : "improvement of MPT". A fancy skin or better icons doesn't 'improve' working with MPT.
But they don't have to. An aesthetic GUI is a purpose on its own, parallel to funcionality.
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Offline Waxhead

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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2007, 03:37:54 »
I just can't keep my big mouth shut anymore....

I personaly like the simplistic look of ModPlug. A clean, simple, descriptive userinterface without bloated superhuge icons a0nd a lot of fancy eyecandy.
The only change I have done to the userinterface is to set the background color to 192,192,192 and I tick off the use small fonts checkbox.

I'm not directly against improving the userinterface a little but I think that as long as there are other features in the queue just cosmetic changes to the userinterface that don't have anything to do with useabillity these changes are not neccesary.

My tip to those who can't handle the icons is to use a tool like restorator to change the icons on the executable or to learn some coding and start a fork of OpenMPT.

PS! I don't see the point in dressing up a program like a little girl dresses up her doll. If there where more womans using OpenMPT perhaps... (shitt - I guess I really blew it with this comment... flamewar here I come ;) )

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2007, 04:32:55 »
Hmm... I've already used reshacker to change the bootsplash. =) I'll get back to work on those icons. Soon. =)