Author Topic: New iconset  (Read 17170 times)

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,053
  • Gender: Male
    • Barryvan
New iconset
« on: March 25, 2007, 05:57:14 »
The icons in mpt seem to be getting a little bit dated: sixteen colours aren't all that necessary any more. What about just grabbing something like the Tango icon theme, which is free and open for use and sticking that in? I can guarantee that the interface will feel a lot more professional straight away.

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
New iconset
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 07:00:04 »
I don't see much relation between the use of icons and professionalism.
This Tango theme is a nice set, but way too huge for MPT, which is barely using icons.
You can find the two old ones, and one OMPT version in this file btw :
http://www.louigiverona.ru/webarchive/samzen/modz/mpt_icons.zip
0.618033988

Offline LPChip

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,949
    • http://lpchip.nl
  • Operating System: Windows 7 (x64bit)
New iconset
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 11:08:42 »
I actually like the old icons alot, because they're simple and recognisable. OpenMPT shows that its a simple yet powerfull application where the focus has been put on workability instead of appearance.

The new icons do look good though, but I just think its not that necessary.
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,197
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 7 x64
New iconset
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 14:38:03 »
Well, i'd also prefer a bit more modern icons. they don't have to differ in shape or something, but they could be recolored to 256c or "mixed" colors...
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,053
  • Gender: Male
    • Barryvan
New iconset
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 03:54:23 »
I'm happy to redo all of the mpt icons from scratch, at 24bit. They'll hardly change the size of the binary, too... I don't dislike the icons per se. I just think that they can be updated, like the rest of the program. There is, after all, a little bit of a tendency for music software to be very visual. =)

I still think that mpt has one of the best interfaces around, though: it does what you expect it to do, using standard controls. It doesn't get in the way of actually writing music. Let's just pretty it up and bring it into line with all the other professional software out there.

Offline LPChip

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,949
    • http://lpchip.nl
  • Operating System: Windows 7 (x64bit)
New iconset
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 07:43:07 »
Well, I don't really know how easy this is for the programmers to change, but you'll have my vote. :)

Maybe Rewbs or Relabsoluness can give more insight. They're the ones that'll have to make it :)
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
New iconset
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2007, 00:02:00 »
I apologize for my stupid post above. Of course MPT is not 'barely using icons'.. So I checked all icons used inside the program.
Most of them are quite simple, but very effective in their meaning.  So I prefer to keep it that way. I've experienced a bit too often that re-designing in favour of a 'new' look results in a nice button, but at the same time quite unclear what it stands for.

Color-resolution is another thing. Because it also effects filesize. If the same button is converted from 16 to 256 colors, it results in more data to read. So more time to build up a page on the screen. I know, things are processed fast enough, but that's not the point.
The change should make sense. Buttons are too small for a photo, so often only a few colors are used.
It would be silly, to represent a button with a grey background and a black play-triangle on it, as a bitmap with 24 million colors.
0.618033988

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,053
  • Gender: Male
    • Barryvan
Comparison - sizes and aesthetics
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2007, 03:00:55 »
I understand, SZ. However, I've done some testing. I made up a 24bit 16x16 PNG image, filled with an 80% opaque rainbow spectrum. It's file size is 342b. Then, I made the same image using 16 colours, and saved it as a BMP (which is the format used in mpt). It's size is 246b. Now, a difference of 100b isn't all that much... As an example of aesthetic pleasing-ness, take a look at the four images below.

24bit PNG



16 colour BMP
Yes, they're GIFs, but you get the idea. And they're actually only 2bit images.



I'm sure you'll agree that these icons look nicer, and don't detract any meaning. In fact, they're probably more widely useful, as they'll show up on any background colour.

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
New iconset
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2007, 04:25:03 »
Quote
saved it as a BMP (which is the format used in mpt)

If so, a major difference turns up : transparency or not.
Because afaik the BMP format doesn't support that, while GIF, ICO or PNG do.
0.618033988

Offline bvanoudtshoorn

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,053
  • Gender: Male
    • Barryvan
New iconset
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2007, 05:05:49 »
What generally happens is that the "transparent" area is just a colour which isn't drawn. Normally, it's defined by what's in the top-left corner (at least, that's what Delphi does). This is essentially the same transparency as is offered by GIFs - one bit transparency. The huge advantage of PNGs is that they offer 8bit transparency: a colour value now has four components: red, green, blue, and alpha. This allows you to do nice fade outs and anti-aliasing and such. Basically, everything can look much prettier. =) The ICO format now supports this (to a limited extent) as well: however, issues arise when you migrate to earlier versions of Windows which don't support these enhancements.

The BMP format is generally used for icons in programs because it is so well understood and implemented (but not efficient). Essentially, it records every colour value of every pixel as a series of bits (hence bitmap). Formats like PNG, however, only record what's necessary in a very compact way, without losing any information.

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,197
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 7 x64
New iconset
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2007, 10:59:06 »
we don't even need 8bit transparency in modplug :D but indeed, your icons look much better imho... go on =) maybe there's the possiblity to include custom icon sets like in other programs...?
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Sam_Zen

  • Extreme artist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,689
    • http://www.xs4all.nl/~samzen/
New iconset
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2007, 23:59:46 »
2 BvO
I know about compression, if that's what you're talking about. :)
Of course 100b doesn't seem much, but looking at the percentage, it's another thing.

Quote
Normally, it's defined by what's in the top-left corner (at least, that's what Delphi does)

If I want transparency I use Irfan View. I can click on any pixel in the bitmap to make that color transparent. Other editors use the background layer for that.
You're talking about gradients. Then the alpha-channel is an elegant solution.

2 Jojo
Custom icon sets are still way ahead, I'm afraid. Afaik the present icons are embedded in the executable now.
0.618033988

Offline Saga Musix

  • OpenMPT Developers
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,197
  • aka Jojo
    • Download music, samples, VST plugins: Saga Musix Website
  • Operating System: Windows 7 x64
New iconset
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 10:52:42 »
Heh, yes, i guessed that it wouldn't be possible in the near future :D
But what do you think about these icons?
» No support, bug reports, feature requests via private messages - they will not be answered. Use the forums and the issue tracker so that everyone can benefit from your post.

Offline Matt Hartman

  • Workaholic artist
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • http://www.artman-dg.com
New iconset
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 06:58:25 »
bvanoudtshoorn

You know, this type of request has been asked countless times, even before OMPT was in cycle. And every time each request went no where or bluntly got shot down.

I strongly feel this is due to a lack of understanding and time on how to actually implement this into he current structure of the program. But that's just the technical excuse in my eyes.

I think there's a general consensus of a certain amount of fear in change around here. The issue has been argued with every point humanly possible, mostly against the proposition. Which in the end is really sad and nonsupporting to the individuality of the user.  

Should the rest of us go ignored because a few tech types want to keep MPT looking like a DOS screen? I think that's mildly arrogant to say the least.

It's not healthy to stifle one's sense of creativity. And if a simple icon set does the trick, then so be it. Yes, the ultimate aim of the software is to compose music, in which it does rather well. A few cosmetic changes will not destroy that. Rather, quite possibly for some, improve it.  I understand the respect for logic here, but sometimes it's a nice to break away and paint the fence a new color, for no greater reason other than to have fun and gain some visual stimulation.

I say (as I've said before) let them have their icons with an option to install/uninstall. I don't see why it should disrupt any one's work flow. If you want them, load them, if not simply bypass.

With all due respect Sam Zen, you need to simply let this one go. You already know that the fabric of life and everything in it is continuously changing. Try to be more supportive with this. Whether you realize this or not, you carry a certain amount of clout with the makers that be. Don't let your personal opinions steer the progress that is JUST beginning to bud, that would be rather self-centered.

Trust me all, if I had the knowledge to do this, MPT would have been totally fashionable before it even hit open source.

bvanoudtshoorn, I've offered the very same thing you have to no avail for over 4 years. I had a direct connection with the original author. Tech types just won't budge when something doesn't carry a logical reasoning. In dealing with creating art above code, I never understood this one.

Who knows, maybe this time...

Rewbs, my most talented friend, how long can you ignore this? You can virtually have all the setup work at your doorstep, you just have to implement it!
Yeah, sure. Right. Whatever.

Offline LPChip

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,949
    • http://lpchip.nl
  • Operating System: Windows 7 (x64bit)
New iconset
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 07:47:08 »
Quote from: "Matt Hartman"


Some complains, etc...

Rewbs, my most talented friend, how long can you ignore this? You can virtually have all the setup work at your doorstep, you just have to implement it!


Matt, do you really think that a post like this will make it okay to implement now?

Really, if I'd be the programmer and it would've been on my to-do list, then this would be a reason to delete it off. The last thing I'll do is honour a request written in the way you just did.

Oh, and don't get me wrong here... A simple icon change is nothing I'm against, but the way you've posted that message litterally makes my hairs go stand up.

Also don't forget that the programmers have a life too. They have like a million things they want to implement, and they only have time to do one at a time. I'm sure they don't mind changing this, if its really that simple, but there are other things they prefer to do first. Is it that hard to understand?
"Heh, maybe I should've joined the compo only because it would've meant I wouldn't have had to worry about a damn EQ or compressor for a change. " - Atlantis
"yes.. I think in this case it was wishful thinking: MPT is makng my life hard so it must be wrong" - Rewbs